Expected mileage range drop

[kmcdonal]

First time caller, long-time listener. Firstly, just wanted to say how much I’ve appreciated all of the informative posts on this forum, which I’ve been reading carefully since ordering my Taycan Turbo way back in 2019. Delivery in July after the UK’s first lockdown finished, so I’ve had it over three months now. Unfortunately, have only managed to register 2,000 miles. As most on this forum have said, the car is an absolute joy to drive. However, I’ve encountered a whole host of problems since delivery. Most have been minor – e.g. PCM issues, Apple Music not working, rattles, rear spoiler misaligned etc, but the range drop-off that others are also seeing is really concerning, especially since over here (UK) the temperatures haven’t quite hit the Wintery numbers yet.

When I first took delivery of the car back in July, I was getting upward of 280 miles (projected on the basis of miles driven per percentage of battery used). That was at the height of Summer, when we had a number of days above 30C (above 86F), and so the A/C was running pretty much constantly. As we moved into August and September, with slightly lower temperatures in the 20Cs (70Fs), I was expecting to see an increase in range since the A/C was hardly running, but, instead, saw a decrease in range. Since then, the range has continued to quite drastically and progressively decline. Currently, I am rarely seeing more than 200 miles of full range, and a recent short trip of 10 miles used up 6% of the battery. I can understand getting low range in freezing temperatures, but it has been a really mild Autumn/Winter over here so far, and the lowest outside temperature while I’ve been driving has been 12C (54F). I’ve attached a graph showing the increase in consumption, using the consumption information from the Porsche Connect app. The average external temperature figures on there are a little bit back-of-the-envelope, since I’ve used the average day-time temperatures as recorded by a weather website, and the last month’s data is a work in progress and only comprises 13 days (so will be disproportionately impacted if I happened to drive on a colder than usual day). The range line has just been extrapolated from the consumption figures. I’ve also started looking at the consumption while driving more carefully now, and when we start a trip, the consumption is usually over 120kwh/100miles, and gradually gets lower but will only get below 40/45kwh/100miles once we’ve driven at least 30/40 miles. I was fully expecting a range drop-off in the Winter, but this seems quite drastic when we haven’t even hit the really cold stuff yet. There is also the possibility it is a software issue, since I am not sure the car is determining the battery percentage accurately at times – for example, we’ve had several instances of parking the car, and returning less than half an hour later with the percentage being 2% less than when we parked, even though the car was turned off (with no cool/heat), and also occasions when the car has been charging, and the range estimate has increased by, say, 15 miles, but the percentage has only gone up by 1%, only to right itself 24 hours later by adding the extra percentages. Anyone else seeing this as normal behaviour? In particular, anyone in the UK with a Turbo seeing such low range figures in November?

How did you pull the consumption data for this chart? I just see consumption by trip in the app. I don't see how to export.

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[SYN_Skydance]

My wife has had a BMW i3 for 3 years now. The weather has a massive effect on its range. After setting off on a cold day the range reading does increase as the battery warms up. Preconditioning the car before setting off warms the cabin and the battery. I’m assuming the Taycan has some sort of preconditioning option.

 

[Tonytones]

First time caller, long-time listener. Firstly, just wanted to say how much I’ve appreciated all of the informative posts on this forum, which I’ve been reading carefully since ordering my Taycan Turbo way back in 2019. Delivery in July after the UK’s first lockdown finished, so I’ve had it over three months now. Unfortunately, have only managed to register 2,000 miles. As most on this forum have said, the car is an absolute joy to drive. However, I’ve encountered a whole host of problems since delivery. Most have been minor – e.g. PCM issues, Apple Music not working, rattles, rear spoiler misaligned etc, but the range drop-off that others are also seeing is really concerning, especially since over here (UK) the temperatures haven’t quite hit the Wintery numbers yet.

When I first took delivery of the car back in July, I was getting upward of 280 miles (projected on the basis of miles driven per percentage of battery used). That was at the height of Summer, when we had a number of days above 30C (above 86F), and so the A/C was running pretty much constantly. As we moved into August and September, with slightly lower temperatures in the 20Cs (70Fs), I was expecting to see an increase in range since the A/C was hardly running, but, instead, saw a decrease in range. Since then, the range has continued to quite drastically and progressively decline. Currently, I am rarely seeing more than 200 miles of full range, and a recent short trip of 10 miles used up 6% of the battery. I can understand getting low range in freezing temperatures, but it has been a really mild Autumn/Winter over here so far, and the lowest outside temperature while I’ve been driving has been 12C (54F). I’ve attached a graph showing the increase in consumption, using the consumption information from the Porsche Connect app. The average external temperature figures on there are a little bit back-of-the-envelope, since I’ve used the average day-time temperatures as recorded by a weather website, and the last month’s data is a work in progress and only comprises 13 days (so will be disproportionately impacted if I happened to drive on a colder than usual day). The range line has just been extrapolated from the consumption figures. I’ve also started looking at the consumption while driving more carefully now, and when we start a trip, the consumption is usually over 120kwh/100miles, and gradually gets lower but will only get below 40/45kwh/100miles once we’ve driven at least 30/40 miles. I was fully expecting a range drop-off in the Winter, but this seems quite drastic when we haven’t even hit the really cold stuff yet. There is also the possibility it is a software issue, since I am not sure the car is determining the battery percentage accurately at times – for example, we’ve had several instances of parking the car, and returning less than half an hour later with the percentage being 2% less than when we parked, even though the car was turned off (with no cool/heat), and also occasions when the car has been charging, and the range estimate has increased by, say, 15 miles, but the percentage has only gone up by 1%, only to right itself 24 hours later by adding the extra percentages. Anyone else seeing this as normal behaviour? In particular, anyone in the UK with a Turbo seeing such low range figures in November?

That's pretty much the numbers I have too right now with comprable temperature.
210 miles of range for 100% charge, consumption of 41-45kwh/100 miles (or 25-28 kwh per 100km) for a 60 miles commute (100km).
Whereas in the summer I was more or less at 23 kwh/100km (37 kwh/100 miles).

I also switched my 21 inch wheels with wide 305 all season tyres for 20'' turbo aero wheels with winter tyres (Goodyear Ultragrip from Porsche winter kit).
So I do think as well that tenperature and software algorithms here are the main factors explaining what we are seeing.

 

[Tonytones]

My wife has had a BMW i3 for 3 years now. The weather has a massive effect on its range. After setting off on a cold day the range reading does increase as the battery warms up. Preconditioning the car before setting off warms the cabin and the battery. I’m assuming the Taycan has some sort of preconditioning option.

Just heating the cabin at the beginning of a trip in cold weather (wihtout prior preconditioning while the car was pluggeg in ) saw the consumption rate increase drastically the other day, from my usual 41-45 kwh/100 miles nowadays to more than 100kwh/100 miles, which underlines the difference in energy transfer needed to heat a car cabin when comparing an EV to ICE vehicule.

I'll clean up my garage and park it there for the wintertime and try to set a Timer to precondition the cabin before I go. Then I'll assess the consumption and see if the numbers get any better (as one would expect...)
I'll report back later

 

[Doc B]

How did you pull the consumption data for this chart? I just see consumption by trip in the app. I don't see how to export.

Annoyingly, literally had to go through each trip and inputted the data into an Excel spreadsheet by hand. Not the most fun I've ever had, but guess it is lockdown

 

[Doc B]

If this is just temperature, it's a real shame there doesn't seem to be a way to warm the battery while plugged-in at home. At this rate, I'll be lucky to see 150 miles total range if we get freezing temps in January. That starts to be a problem as I have regular 120 mile roundtrips. Interested to see how you get on with preconditioning the cabin Tobytones, as that may explain whether it is the heating of the cabin that causing the higher consumption, or the heating of the battery - I think it is probably the latter, since the car heating has hardly been on as it's fairly mild. It's about time someone wrote that EV book...

 

[Tonytones]

If this is just temperature, it's a real shame there doesn't seem to be a way to warm the battery while plugged-in at home. At this rate, I'll be lucky to see 150 miles total range if we get freezing temps in January. That starts to be a problem as I have regular 120 mile roundtrips. Interested to see how you get on with preconditioning the cabin Tobytones, as that may explain whether it is the heating of the cabin that causing the higher consumption, or the heating of the battery - I think it is probably the latter, since the car heating has hardly been on as it's fairly mild. It's about time someone wrote that EV book...

I'm in the same boat as you as I have once or twice a week a 125 miles (200km) roundtrip mainly on highway.
So ideally, when I bought the car, I thought I wouldn't have to charge up to 100% even during winter to preserve my battery capacity...

 

[jheard]

When fully charged ( when required not every time) my expected mileage has always read between 239 and 242 miles. I havent changed any driving style and actually drive quite conservitively. The last 2 charges to full have given me 190 miles expected range. The only thing that has changed is the weather. Is it clever enough to know the outside temp and account for that. 50 mile range drop seems pretty heavy . Any clues from the more educated amongst you all?

Having driven a Tesla for over 3 years your range in miles will change based on your driving habits, weather and road conditions etc. So if you range shows 190 miles but you then drove at steady 60mph for 50-100 miles on a dry road in warm weather your miles echoed would increase, conversely if it is 5 degrees , pouring with rain and you drive 3 short 5 mile trips stopping and starting with battery not getting a chance to warm up then your range will decrease. Heating on will also make a difference, much more than AC in summer. The key stat is battery %, miles is just a calculation based on driving habits and conditions. Sounds likes your driving habits haven't changed so it's purely the weather that is affecting it. In winter my range dropped on my Tesla from around 240 to 200 if that helps. I could precondition and warm the battery a little by fully charging from around 20% to 90% and also preheat the car and seat while connected to your home charger as it will draw power from your home electricity rather than the car before getting in. This will also help if range is key as it will allow you to turn the heating off or down once your in the car.

 

[daveo4EV]

in low temperatures bolt owners have experienced 20-30% loss in capacity due to low temps - when it gets cold EV’s suffer multiple factors

1. cold batteries are less efficient
2. air is denser increasing aero dynamic drag
3. battery capacity is used to keep the battery itself warmer
4. road conditions tends to be worse increasing rolling resistance
5. battery capacity is used to heat the passenger cabin

the range will get better in the spring - but during cold weather range wil be less

 

[jheard]

First time caller, long-time listener. Firstly, just wanted to say how much I’ve appreciated all of the informative posts on this forum, which I’ve been reading carefully since ordering my Taycan Turbo way back in 2019. Delivery in July after the UK’s first lockdown finished, so I’ve had it over three months now. Unfortunately, have only managed to register 2,000 miles. As most on this forum have said, the car is an absolute joy to drive. However, I’ve encountered a whole host of problems since delivery. Most have been minor – e.g. PCM issues, Apple Music not working, rattles, rear spoiler misaligned etc, but the range drop-off that others are also seeing is really concerning, especially since over here (UK) the temperatures haven’t quite hit the Wintery numbers yet.

When I first took delivery of the car back in July, I was getting upward of 280 miles (projected on the basis of miles driven per percentage of battery used). That was at the height of Summer, when we had a number of days above 30C (above 86F), and so the A/C was running pretty much constantly. As we moved into August and September, with slightly lower temperatures in the 20Cs (70Fs), I was expecting to see an increase in range since the A/C was hardly running, but, instead, saw a decrease in range. Since then, the range has continued to quite drastically and progressively decline. Currently, I am rarely seeing more than 200 miles of full range, and a recent short trip of 10 miles used up 6% of the battery. I can understand getting low range in freezing temperatures, but it has been a really mild Autumn/Winter over here so far, and the lowest outside temperature while I’ve been driving has been 12C (54F). I’ve attached a graph showing the increase in consumption, using the consumption information from the Porsche Connect app. The average external temperature figures on there are a little bit back-of-the-envelope, since I’ve used the average day-time temperatures as recorded by a weather website, and the last month’s data is a work in progress and only comprises 13 days (so will be disproportionately impacted if I happened to drive on a colder than usual day). The range line has just been extrapolated from the consumption figures. I’ve also started looking at the consumption while driving more carefully now, and when we start a trip, the consumption is usually over 120kwh/100miles, and gradually gets lower but will only get below 40/45kwh/100miles once we’ve driven at least 30/40 miles. I was fully expecting a range drop-off in the Winter, but this seems quite drastic when we haven’t even hit the really cold stuff yet. There is also the possibility it is a software issue, since I am not sure the car is determining the battery percentage accurately at times – for example, we’ve had several instances of parking the car, and returning less than half an hour later with the percentage being 2% less than when we parked, even though the car was turned off (with no cool/heat), and also occasions when the car has been charging, and the range estimate has increased by, say, 15 miles, but the percentage has only gone up by 1%, only to right itself 24 hours later by adding the extra percentages. Anyone else seeing this as normal behaviour? In particular, anyone in the UK with a Turbo seeing such low range figures in November?

I have posted below my response on this topic. Not had enough miles in the Taycan to see if it behaves in the same way as my Tesla did, but as it's the same battery tech it should do. On the 2 points you mentioned. 1. Short trips will definitely show a far higher consumption as battery doesn't get a chance to warm up and get to a good operating temperature, lots of short trips will be a nightmare for range in any EV, compared to a long steady motorway trip. 2. In terms of battery % loss while car is parked that doesn't seem right at all. I know others have had theirs parked up for up to 3 weeks due to lockdown and at detailers and only lost 1% and Ib have not driven mine for last 3 days and battery % is the same today as 3 days ago.

 

[Doc B]

Thanks all. This is really helpful info, and it is beginning to sound like the range drop-off is temperature related, which is affecting shorter trips disproportionately. I just hadn't expected the range drop to be so stark between 80F and 60F. For the same (longer) trips, I've lost around 40/50 odd miles (based upon miles per battery %). I guess if glass is half full, if I'd got the car in the Winter, I would have been pleasantly surprised with the range jump come the warmer weather.

 

[Doc B]

I have posted below my response on this topic. Not had enough miles in the Taycan to see if it behaves in the same way as my Tesla did, but as it's the same battery tech it should do. On the 2 points you mentioned. 1. Short trips will definitely show a far higher consumption as battery doesn't get a chance to warm up and get to a good operating temperature, lots of short trips will be a nightmare for range in any EV, compared to a long steady motorway trip. 2. In terms of battery % loss while car is parked that doesn't seem right at all. I know others have had theirs parked up for up to 3 weeks due to lockdown and at detailers and only lost 1% and Ib have not driven mine for last 3 days and battery % is the same today as 3 days ago.

Thanks. The issues with the battery percentage are concerning me, and I'm going to keep a record so I can show a consistent course for the dealer. It's not so much a long term issue - for example, if I leave the car in the garage for three days, I would not see a loss of more than 1%, but it's more immediate - i.e. get home with a certain percentage showing, and check the car an hour later and that % has gone down by 2% (1% I can understand as a rounding error, but consistently 2% doesn't make sense). Charging also seems quite random. I've taken the car off charge at say 85%, then pulled into the drive, and before leaving five minutes later, it is already at 83% (and no, my driveway is not several miles long, more like 100ft). Yesterday, while charging, again, the range count went up 10 miles, without the % count changing at all, even though nearly 4kwh had been put into the battery. Not sure if this is an issue with trickle charging, but the problems have been much worse since recent WLG2 and WLH5 updates at the dealer.

 

[JC Mann]

in low temperatures bolt owners have experienced 20-30% loss in capacity due to low temps - when it gets cold EV’s suffer multiple factors

1. cold batteries are less efficient
2. air is denser increasing aero dynamic drag
3. battery capacity is used to keep the battery itself warmer
4. road conditions tends to be worse increasing rolling resistance
5. battery capacity is used to heat the passenger cabin

the range will get better in the spring - but during cold weather range wil be less

Another EV technique is to avoid heating the entire cabin. Turn heater off. Seat warmer and, if desired, steering wheel warmer will keep you from feeling cold while expending less battery. Of course, that only works if you’re solo in the car.

 

[Scandinavian]

Another EV technique is to avoid heating the entire cabin. Turn heater off. Seat warmer and, if desired, steering wheel warmer will keep you from feeling cold while expending less battery. Of course, that only works if you’re solo in the car.

I know all of that works fine.

Put on some extra layers, thick gloves and a wooden hat and you will be fine.

But for me that is not why I bought this lovely car! It drives and handles fantastic, has a lot of issues with the PCM, but I want it to be comfortable and enjoyable. If that means I have to stop to charge an extra stop, so be it!

Life is too short to be hyper miling!

 

[Scandinavian]

I’m just suggesting how to avoid the App if it isn’t working for you.

Preconditioning ONLY heats the cabin (and seats and steering wheel) it does NOT heat the traction battery.

I just found this on the Porsche website!
It seems that when the car is plugged in the battery is preconditioned. Might be worth trying out for you who already have low temperatures. I think that sounds good and would love to hear feedback from somebody in Canada or NA.

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