NEMA 14-50 Supply cable heat data

[bgatxy1]

Was your door open or shut during charging?

Door shut, those numbers were at 1 hour each. After 2 hours at 30 amps the plug is at 146 & steady.

Sponsored

 

[HelfFL]

Since Porsche's unofficial response to the PMCC heat issue so far is to simply reduce the power to 32 amps instead of 40, I decided to purchase the ClipperCreek HCS-50P charger to compare heat data to the PMCC. This ClipperCreek charger is also a Level 2, 40 amp charger with a 25' cable and a NEMA 14-50 plug - so similar to my PMCC. Today was my first try with the ClipperCreek and below are the temperatures of various components after 2 hours of charging in my garage. It was a hot day in South Florida, about 95 degrees. I started with a 45% SOC at 12:45 pm and my general profile stopped charging at 85% at 5:30 pm. Charging speeds were approximately 8.1 - 8.16 kW throughout the charge.

My biggest concern so far has been the temperature of my 50 amp breaker during charging. With the PMCC, my circuit breaker was getting as high as 155° and the breaker did trip once. The highest I got with the ClipperCreek this session was 136° which came after 2 hours of charging. Lower than the PMCC but still hot to the touch.

Excuse the temporary install as I had to remove the Porsche dock to be able to plug in the ClipperCreek. It only comes with a 12" cable from charger to receptacle, and the dock extender is in the way, so I had to just hang the ClipperCreek to be able to plug in cleanly without any bend in the cable.

With the ClipperCreek, all the heat data was lower than my PMCC at the various components. The temperature of the circuit breaker, even with this one, will not make me feel comfortable charging overnight unattended, but at least there is noticeable lower difference with the ClipperCreek.

 

[daveo4EV]

@HelfFL those temps are unconcerning for a charger that is not considered “mobile” - well below 100C - I would not worry about those temps - the PMCC runs hotter but is equally safe, but is considered a mobile charger. The clippercreek is not a mobile charger and the temps should be unconcerning to you.

 

[HelfFL]

@HelfFL those temps are unconcerning for a charger that is not considered “mobile” - well below 100C - I would not worry about those temps - the PMCC runs hotter but is equally safe, but is considered a mobile charger. The clippercreek is not a mobile charger and the temps should be unconcerning to you.

@daveo4EV Thanks, I appreciate your insight, as always on these forums.

 

[daveo4EV]

@HelfFL - at 95F ambient temp - you’re only seeing a 30F rise in temps - really quite modest - if you charge at night when electricity might be cheaper - ambient temps will be lower - and the cable temps will be lower - highest temp you measured 121F (121 - 95 = 26F temperature delta - really very very modest for a 9.6 kW feed and well in line with expectations - other temps you measured were even less) - don’t look at the absolute temp so much as the delta - the device will not be cooler than ambient temps - and you’re adding “power/heat” by running the charger - 26F temperature delta after 2 hours I would consider excellent

what were the delta’s of the PMCC? I think they were much higher weren’t they?

 

[HelfFL]

@HelfFL - at 95F ambient temp - you’re only seeing a 30F rise in temps - really quite modest - if you charge at night when electricity might be cheaper - ambient temps will be lower - and the cable temps will be lower - highest temp you measured 121F (121 - 95 = 26F temperature delta - really very very modest for a 9.6 kW feed and well in line with expectations - other temps you measured were even less) - don’t look at the absolute temp so much as the delta - the device will not be cooler than ambient temps - and you’re adding “power/heat” by running the charger - 26F temperature delta after 2 hours I would consider excellent

what were the delta’s of the PMCC? I think they were much higher weren’t they?

Yes, the deltas of the PMCC were higher on all the data points except the cable to the car. The ClipperCreek cable to the car had a higher delta but not significant. My only real concern is the circuit breaker temperature. To my layman's expectation, I wouldn't think the breaker should get so hot to the touch while charging.

 

[KenU]

Yes, the deltas of the PMCC were higher on all the data points except the cable to the car. The ClipperCreek cable to the car had a higher delta but not significant. My only real concern is the circuit breaker temperature. To my layman's expectation, I wouldn't think the breaker should get so hot to the touch while charging.

Agreed!

 

[Jaydoc]

Okay, I'm just a simple Surgeon, but this is all very confusing. I have no problems with hot wires or plugs or breakers. My plug is NEMA 14-30. This is what my dealer told me to get so I did. My electrician put in wire that was rated for 50 in case I wanted to change it in the future, but the breaker matches the 30 and would have to be replaced. Does this mean I have a different charging unit? Did the dealer tell me the wrong thing? I assume this is why it takes soooooo long to charge. My car is only a month old

 

[ron_b]

Okay, I'm just a simple Surgeon, but this is all very confusing. I have no problems with hot wires or plugs or breakers. My plug is NEMA 14-30. This is what my dealer told me to get so I did. My electrician put in wire that was rated for 50 in case I wanted to change it in the future, but the breaker matches the 30 and would have to be replaced. Does this mean I have a different charging unit? Did the dealer tell me the wrong thing? I assume this is why it takes soooooo long to charge. My car is only a month old

Well Judith, I would say you should have had a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed with a 50A breaker. However, due to some wire size issues from Porsche it is recommended that you do not set the charging limit above 32 amps at this time. I believed Porsche will be sending out new charging cables soon.

You should just contact your dealer about getting a NEMA 14-50 charging cable when the replacements are available. After that bit of misleading I would say they should get it for you for free. you will have to pay the electrician to swap the breaker and change the outlet but it was very good that you got cabling that was 50 amp capable capable. the Porsche charger does only go to 40 amps which is the limit for a 50 amp breaker app continuous load anyway.

It has been seen that the car will charge even faster than that at 48 amps if you have a charger super bowl of that like the clippercreek 60 amp. But I plan on sitting with the Porsche charger at 40 amps when the new cable is available.

 

[wmras]

Okay, I'm just a simple Surgeon, but this is all very confusing. I have no problems with hot wires or plugs or breakers. My plug is NEMA 14-30. This is what my dealer told me to get so I did. My electrician put in wire that was rated for 50 in case I wanted to change it in the future, but the breaker matches the 30 and would have to be replaced. Does this mean I have a different charging unit? Did the dealer tell me the wrong thing? I assume this is why it takes soooooo long to charge. My car is only a month old

The Porsche Charger with NEMA 14-30 plug will limit current to 24 amps (80% of 30 amps, the maximum continuous current by code in the US). You are charging at at 5.7 kW maximum (24A x 240V), slightly over half the rate you would get with a 50 amp circuit (9.6 kW, 40A x 240V). It would take you at least 16 hours to recharge a 0% battery to 100%. Yes, you are correct - it is very slow but ultra safe.

 

[HelfFL]

My last posts related to the ClipperCreek HCS-50P which I purchased to compare to the PMCC. Although the temperatures with the ClipperCreek were more comforting than the PMCC, due to my existing Porsche Dock install, I couldn't wall mount the ClipperCreek and unfortunately returned it. The ClipperCreek only had a 12" cable from charger to plug, so I couldn't make it work. For my next experiment, I purchased the Mustart 40 amp charger with NEMA 14-50 plug (Update Version). A lot of good reviews for this portable charging unit.

Below are my temperature readings from the Mustart for those of you keeping score. These readings are after charging for 2 hrs 15 min. While the device and cable readings aren't that bad, the Mustart causes my circuit breaker to run very hot (149° F), close to the readings I was getting with the PMCC (155° F). The Mustart shows that the ambient temp in my garage was 77° which makes the deltas higher than I was getting with the ClipperCreek.

Based on this, not sure what I will do but I may just end up removing my Porsche Dock installation and install the ClipperCreek HCS-60 hardwired version as @daveo4EV and @Toby Pennycuff have endorsed. I have 6 gauge wire installed, so if I go this route I will have my electrician switch my breaker to 60-amp to accommodate.

FYI, for you technical folks, the Mustart cable from charger to plug is labeled "3X8AWG+1X20AWG 600V" and the cable from charger to the car is labeled "2X8AWG+1X10AWG+1X16AWG 105° 600V".

 

[daveo4EV]

the temps on your mustart are not bad at all especially given ambient - I wouldn’t worry about the breaker - 150F is’t a problem - nothing is really a concern until you’re getting close to 100C (which is 212F) - and you’re no where near that.

40 amps is a _LOT_ of power and running continuously at 40 amps for 2 hours or more is a demanding application — but as long as temps are not continuosly rising nothing about these temperatures strike me as concerning…

9.6 kWh (a hour’s worth of 40 amps of charging) is 34,560,000 - 34.56 million joules of energy - that’s an embarassing amount of power, and some of that power is coming out as heat energy as part of the process…nothing is going to remain at room temp while dealing with these sorts of power demands - there will be a rise of temperature - but unless it gets close to 100C everything is rated for those sorts of loads.

 

[HelfFL]

the temps on your mustart are not bad at all especially given ambient - I wouldn’t worry about the breaker - 150F is’t a problem - nothing is really a concern until you’re getting close to 100C (which is 212F) - and you’re no where near that.

40 amps is a _LOT_ of power and running continuously at 40 amps for 2 hours or more is a demanding application — but as long as temps are not continuosly rising nothing about these temperatures strike me as concerning…

9.6 kWh (a hour’s worth of 40 amps of charging) is 34,560,000 - 34.56 million joules of energy - that’s an embarassing amount of power, and some of that power is coming out as heat energy as part of the process…nothing is going to remain at room temp while dealing with these sorts of power demands - there will be a rise of temperature - but unless it gets close to 100C everything is rated for those sorts of loads.

Thanks @daveo4EV. You always have a way of comforting me despite my novice paranoia about all this. You're absolutely right about the power. With the Mustart plugged in I could actually hear what sounded like current (a whizzing sound) running through the circuit breaker when it's charging. I don't recall hearing that with the PMCC but will check when I reinstall it. Thanks again.

 

[Jaydoc]

Well Judith, I would say you should have had a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed with a 50A breaker. However, due to some wire size issues from Porsche it is recommended that you do not set the charging limit above 32 amps at this time. I believed Porsche will be sending out new charging cables soon.

You should just contact your dealer about getting a NEMA 14-50 charging cable when the replacements are available. After that bit of misleading I would say they should get it for you for free. you will have to pay the electrician to swap the breaker and change the outlet but it was very good that you got cabling that was 50 amp capable capable. the Porsche charger does only go to 40 amps which is the limit for a 50 amp breaker app continuous load anyway.

It has been seen that the car will charge even faster than that at 48 amps if you have a charger super bowl of that like the clippercreek 60 amp. But I plan on sitting with the Porsche charger at 40 amps when the new cable is available.

Thank you. Is it just the cable that I will need to change or is it a whole charging unit? (in addition to the outlet & breaker)

 

[daveo4EV]

just to be clear - the cable provided by Porsche is electrically safe - there has been _NO_ annoucement/rumor that Porsche will be replacing cables or providing alternatives.

if you want to charge at 48 amps - you'll need to purchase a new EV charger from another source - I recommend ClipperCreek HCS60 - you need a 60 amp breaker, appropriate wire gauge and it will be a hard wired installed so you'll lose the plug - consult your local electrician for the gory details.

you can use the Porsche Charger at 40 amps with a 50 amp breaker - but you have to tolerate the fact that the cable gets a little warm to the touch.

Sponsored