NEMA 14-50 outlet question

[RAHRCR]

I wasn’t home to look it up earlier, but it’s NEC 210.21(B)1 for the code cite on the OCPD rating for single receptacle branch circuits.

Depending on how far away your receptacle is from your panel, you may want to consider running a larger 100A or more feed to a subpanel closer to your destination and then branching the 50A breaker and receptacle off of that. That’s what I did with a 125A sub panel in my garage with EVSE circuits off of that. Then you have more options for easier future expansion if you add additional electric vehicles.

I went the 100AMP subpanel route as well. It is one of the most costly options but I went this route mostly for the purposes of easily supporting 2 EVs in the future. The 11KW vs 9.6KW upgrade isnt a bad idea if you only ever plan on supporting one vehicle.

Note: the some chargers that can work together to share a single circuit…so that is something to consider if you are ok with slower charging for two vehicles in future as well.

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[daveo4EV]

Note: the some chargers that can work together to share a single circuit…so that is something to consider if you are ok with slower charging for two vehicles in future as well.

multiple chargers sharing a single circuit is a really really really excellent solution (ClipperCreek share2 feature) - sharing a 60/80/100 amp circuit is fantastic for charging multiple EV's and in practice works really well because rarely do both EV's need a full-battery-capacity charge from daily use…so the fact that when charging 2 is "slower" doesn't matter - cause both will still be ready well before you wake up in the morning

on the rare days you do have a "full" deep charge - you plug only one vehicle in and that single EV will get "full capacity" charging speed cause the dynamic sharing of the single breaker will give full breaker capacity (20% rule still in effect) to the single EV charging…

shared EV chargers on a single breaker is a fantastic and nearly future-proof approach for the eventually multi-EV household.

 

[daveo4EV]

this is the simplest way to support Two EV's

https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-40-to-80/40-amp-dual-evse-6-50

NEMA 6-50 plug - and has two cords for 9.6 kW charging - supports charing one or two EV's at the same time…no new circuit required - and 14-50 to 6-50 plug swap is _TRIVIAL_ easy…

honestly the best/simpliest and affordable multi-EV upgrade from a EV charging company with an excellent reputation.

 

[Jhenson29]

I went the 100AMP subpanel route as well.

I really think something along those lines should be getting considered by everyone doing this as we’re only going to get more and not less EVs.

Unfortunately, the cost may put people off, especially if they’re already buying a new car.

And some people’s situations may not warrant it for themselves. They may live alone and only have one vehicle or they may be selling their house in the near future and won’t be able to recup the costs or 10 other reasons I can’t think of because I’m not in those situations.

I do think larger EVSE capacity will be a selling point in the housing market in the future. Maybe 10 years, just to put a ballpark number to it. It’s going to be like an extra bedroom or bathroom once it’s common for families to have multiple EVs. Just thinking out loud.

 

[daveo4EV]

NEMA 14-50/6-50 is fine for 99.999999% of daily driving scenarios and even fine for the rare case you come home at 3% SOC and need to charge back to 85%…

NEMA 14-50 is just fine…

 

[RAHRCR]

I really think something along those lines should be getting considered by everyone doing this as we’re only going to get more and not less EVs.

Unfortunately, the cost may put people off, especially if they’re already buying a new car.

And some people’s situations may not warrant it for themselves. They may live alone and only have one vehicle or they may be selling their house in the near future and won’t be able to recup the costs or 10 other reasons I can’t think of because I’m not in those situations.

I do think larger EVSE capacity will be a selling point in the housing market in the future. Maybe 10 years, just to put a ballpark number to it. It’s going to be like an extra bedroom or bathroom once it’s common for families to have multiple EVs. Just thinking out loud.

Agreed. I believe there will become a point where cars with 400-500 miles of range will be considered “average” and having the increased charging capacity to support them will make a home more attractive.

 

[Allegedly]

I have 60A fuse setup with 60A rated 6 AWG wire on a hard wired ChargePoint Homeflex charger and consistently get 10.5A to the car (11A at charger) and without any doubt shave a couple of hours minimum off full charging times - super happy that I went that route for essentially no extra cost as was initially planning identical wire setup for a 40A setup plug in with a 50A fuse. Have an additional 40-50 Nema plug in adjacent bay for the future Mini electric . I went for the hard wire as of course have the Porsche portable charger and obviously was never planning on moving the ChargePoint.

Same exact setup. Love the ChargePoint. I was lucky enough to have the service entrance on the back side of this garage wall so 5 ft of #6 on a 60A worked great. Installed it myself. Super easy.

 

[daveo4EV]

for me owning EV's since 2012 (Ford Focus EV was my first) - the ONLY time charging speed matters is when I'm trying to turn the vehicle around and have a "schedule" - i.e. I'm only going to be home for like 2 or 3 hours and want to pump as many electrons into the battery as possible…

in practice this happens to me personally 3-4 days a year - the other 360 days a year charging time does not matter…

the days it does happen are when I'm behaving more like an uber than a daily driver - mostly airport shuttle days when I'm shuttling in-laws to/from the airport on different arrival/departure schedules or different airports (SFO/SJC/OAK)

however what has happened since 2012 is the rise of fast charging - and honestly 10-20 min stop at any of these fast chargers (even the 50 kW ones) will do more charging than the most expensive 100 amp home charging setup ever will…

the _OTHER_ reason to have faster charging at home is for when you forget to plug in - and realize at 4 am that you need to leave for work at 7 am - and oh sh*t I need to rush to the garage and plug in so I get as much capacity as possible before I get on the road…

99% of the time charging time does not matter cause it will be done in 3 hours or less which means the car is "full" 6 hours before I wake up in the morning…

the rise of fast charging as a "thing" means home charging and high capacity home charging is less critical than it was 4 years ago - see map below - all the orange "pins" are fast chargers you can use in case you home setup fails to meet your needs 0.01% of the time

and fast charging is going to be more fast charging sites in the future - not fewer…

perhaps the money you can save on a smaller home charging setup can be use to add the $460 400V/150 kW charging option -

 

[Wakesurfer]

Darn my electrician already bought the #6 wire, so according to that chart if I ever want to have a 60 amp breaker I'll need it rewired.

I used 6 gauge as well assuming that we would have just one charger. Same position as you - IF we add another EV and add another charger we will need to go to a heavier gauge, etc. But my outlet is only about 20 feet from the electrical box in the garage and easily accessible so it will be a minor project to re-do. If we add another EV we just might try living with charging one car at a time and see how that works out. We are both retired so charging both cars at the same time is not imperative if it every comes down to that.

 

[Jhenson29]

the _OTHER_ reason to have faster charging at home is for when you forget to plug in - and realize at 4 am that you need to leave for work at 7 am - and oh sh*t I need to rush to the garage and plug in so I get as much capacity as possible before I get on the road…

Lol…that’s me….glad I got the 19.2….?

 

[RAHRCR]

for me owning EV's since 2012 (Ford Focus EV was my first) - the ONLY time charging speed matters is when I'm trying to turn the vehicle around and have a "schedule" - i.e. I'm only going to be home for like 2 or 3 hours and want to pump as many electrons into the battery as possible…

in practice this happens to me personally 3-4 days a year - the other 360 days a year charging time does not matter…

the days it does happen are when I'm behaving more like an uber than a daily driver - mostly airport shuttle days when I'm shuttling in-laws to/from the airport on different arrival/departure schedules or different airports (SFO/SJC/OAK)

however what has happened since 2012 is the rise of fast charging - and honestly 10-20 min stop at any of these fast chargers (even the 50 kW ones) will do more charging than the most expensive 100 amp home charging setup ever will…

the _OTHER_ reason to have faster charging at home is for when you forget to plug in - and realize at 4 am that you need to leave for work at 7 am - and oh sh*t I need to rush to the garage and plug in so I get as much capacity as possible before I get on the road…

99% of the time charging time does not matter cause it will be done in 3 hours or less which means the car is "full" 6 hours before I wake up in the morning…

the rise of fast charging as a "thing" means home charging and high capacity home charging is less critical than it was 4 years ago - see map below - all the orange "pins" are fast chargers you can use in case you home setup fails to meet your needs 0.01% of the time

and fast charging is going to be more fast charging sites in the future - not fewer…

perhaps the money you can save on a smaller home charging setup can be use to add the $460 400V/150 kW charging option -

Generally agree with the rationale here. For me, if I am charging outside of my home, this is an indication that something went horribly wrong that day. I am unlikely to use an EV for extended travel until I am driving a Gen 2 Porsche EV.

 

[nickmdp]

this is the simplest way to support Two EV's

https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-40-to-80/40-amp-dual-evse-6-50

NEMA 6-50 plug - and has two cords for 9.6 kW charging - supports charing one or two EV's at the same time…no new circuit required - and 14-50 to 6-50 plug swap is _TRIVIAL_ easy…

honestly the best/simpliest and affordable multi-EV upgrade from a EV charging company with an excellent reputation.

I have that exact charger and can vouch for it being a great fit for us. The one thing to triple check is the distance to both car locations and their charging ports, as the 25' reach sounds great but can be shorter than you'd think. The EVSE is great though, and haven't had a problem with it yet.

 

[ciaranob]

Same exact setup. Love the ChargePoint. I was lucky enough to have the service entrance on the back side of this garage wall so 5 ft of #6 on a 60A worked great. Installed it myself. Super easy.

Ditto in that my main 100A garage supply is literally behind the wall mounting just offset a few more feet than yours

Excellent charger highly rated when you search reviews and 100% effective - WiFi access too has been flawless too since installed 6 months ago.

 

[IrwinJ]

Ditto in that my main 100A garage supply is literally behind the wall mounting just offset a few more feet than yours

Excellent charger highly rated when you search reviews and 100% effective - WiFi access too has been flawless too since installed 6 months ago.

just curious, what is benefit/reason you're using a third party charger as opposed to the charger that comes with the car?

 

[ciaranob]

just curious, what is benefit/reason you're using a third party charger as opposed to the charger that comes with the car?

Numerous discussions on this in Forum - no real benefit at all if all you need is the std 40A plug in wall charger. However, as I previously stated, I have a hard wired 50A (60A fuse) setup for my ChargePoint with faster charging to my car which I prefer.

Also I will never forget to bring my portable as it lives 100% of the time in my car - have done multiple long trips using destination chargers and/or B&B supplied 14-50 sockets where I use the portable charger. So mostly just convenience for me and a realized boost in charge rate at home with the hard wired setup.

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