Softer brakes post update

[CarolineK]

Left my 4S in for the update on Monday, collected it Wednesday and the brakes seem softer with less bite and more ramble.. Has anyone else noticed this, I didn’t think that was part of the update? Thanks

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[chrisk]

Yes I have notice that too and if I remember correctly it has been reported by other members.
It is probably optimizing for range with more regen than bite.
The update advertised only some changes but if you look at the details it updated every module of the car.

 

[YWGT3]

Yes, both the regen and brakes seemed to have less of a bite to them after the update. The less aggressive regen is fine for me. However, I wish they didn't modify the brake module.

 

[submatrix]

It's interesting because I took delivery of a car with the latest brakes firmware and I agree there's something sort of strange feeling about it. I was an expert at coming to a smooth stop with no body movement using single pedal regen braking in the Tesla so I don't think I'm bad at slowing down a car smoothly, but after 3 weeks with the car I still find that sometimes I misjudge my braking and have to come to a more sudden stop than I would have liked.

Additionally I've found it pretty difficult to creep forward with precision at 1mph, anyone else? For example I'm pulling into a parking spot, and I want to inch forward just a little bit. It seems extremely difficult to creep forward a inch.

 

[PT Addiction]

It's interesting because I took delivery of a car with the latest brakes firmware and I agree there's something sort of strange feeling about it. I was an expert at coming to a smooth stop with no body movement using single pedal regen braking in the Tesla so I don't think I'm bad at slowing down a car smoothly, but after 3 weeks with the car I still find that sometimes I misjudge my braking and have to come to a more sudden stop than I would have liked.

Additionally I've found it pretty difficult to creep forward with precision at 1mph, anyone else? For example I'm pulling into a parking spot, and I want to inch forward just a little bit. It seems extremely difficult to creep forward a inch.

Interesting that you mention the forward creep because this happens to me in reverse when I back in to my garage. The driveway is about 3 - 5% grade. When I back in on the driveway sometimes have to stop because I'm coming in crooked. Just before I resume backing into the garage, it seems I have to press the accelerator more than usual to get the car moving again than when I first started. While resuming, sometimes the car jerks and suddenly picks up speed and I have to let go of the pedal afraid that I'm going to hit my other parked cars. Only happens in certain instances on the sloped driveway which I haven't been able to nail down the cause yet.

 

[CarolineK]

Interesting that you mention the forward creep because this happens to me in reverse when I back in to my garage. The driveway is about 3 - 5% grade. When I back in on the driveway sometimes have to stop because I'm coming in crooked. Just before I resume backing into the garage, it seems I have to press the accelerator more than usual to get the car moving again than when I first started. While resuming, sometimes the car jerks and suddenly picks up speed and I have to let go of the pedal afraid that I'm going to hit my other parked cars. Only happens in certain instances on the sloped driveway which I haven't been able to nail down the cause yet.

I agree with both of these points. Trying to park in no longer sure of the control of the distance I’m going to move forward, particularly when wanting to simply inch forward. Traffic also a tad unsettling when very slow. I will phone the garage tomorrow.

 

[NC_Taycan]

At extremely low speeds on inclines, there is some oddness. Consider that there is no regen available at such low speed so only the hydraulic brakes are effective. But the brake pedal isn't mechanically coupled to the hydraulic actuator for the first part of the pedal travel, so any braking is simulated by the computer. (Though I don't know for certain, I expect the latter part of brake pedal travel is mechanically coupled to the hydraulic actuator for failsafe reasons). Similarly, there is no torque converter, so any movement (e.g. creep) is simulated by the computer. Parking or maneuvering in a garage are probably causing some interesting interplay between your control inputs and the computer's algorithm simulating braking and creep. It's not perfect / seamless.

 

[CarolineK]

At extremely low speeds on inclines, there is some oddness. Consider that there is no regen available at such low speed so only the hydraulic brakes are effective. But the brake pedal isn't mechanically coupled to the hydraulic actuator for the first part of the pedal travel, so any braking is simulated by the computer. (Though I don't know for certain, I expect the latter part of brake pedal travel is mechanically coupled to the hydraulic actuator for failsafe reasons). Similarly, there is no torque converter, so any movement (e.g. creep) is simulated by the computer. Parking or maneuvering in a garage are probably causing some interesting interplay between your control inputs and the computer's algorithm simulating braking and creep. It's not perfect / seamless.

But there was before the update. I had no issues. Now I feel like I’m being cautious like a learner driver when parking or in slow traffic, which is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[NC_Taycan]

True - the underlying hardware/limitations were there before the update, and the performance changed with the update. Some say for the better. Some say for the worse.

 

[submatrix]

Honestly I wish there was no creep at all, or at least an option to toggle it like Tesla has.

 

[PT Addiction]

At extremely low speeds on inclines, there is some oddness. Consider that there is no regen available at such low speed so only the hydraulic brakes are effective. But the brake pedal isn't mechanically coupled to the hydraulic actuator for the first part of the pedal travel, so any braking is simulated by the computer. (Though I don't know for certain, I expect the latter part of brake pedal travel is mechanically coupled to the hydraulic actuator for failsafe reasons). Similarly, there is no torque converter, so any movement (e.g. creep) is simulated by the computer. Parking or maneuvering in a garage are probably causing some interesting interplay between your control inputs and the computer's algorithm simulating braking and creep. It's not perfect / seamless.

I'm not tracking you 100% but I get the general idea. I had to go online to look up low speed computer simulation and braking, and came up with information on driver assistance systems for traffic jams and such. Interesting stuff... still reading. Thanks!

PS
The technology is relatively new and hopefully; not prematurely incorporated in vehicles but if the case, could explain, in part, the issues we're having.

 

[CarolineK]

I'm not tracking you 100% but I get the general idea. I had to go online to look up low speed computer simulation and braking, and came up with information on driver assistance systems for traffic jams and such. Interesting stuff... still reading. Thanks!

PS
The technology is relatively new and hopefully; not prematurely incorporated in vehicles but if the case, could explain, in part, the issues we're having.

Spoke with the Porsche Centre today who did the update. They say they haven’t changed anything with the brakes. They did say, however, that the update has effectively rewritten evenrything from before and the far will relearn the driver’s style etc. On reflection when I got the car I thought the breaks had no bite but this improved with driving. Let’s see how it gets on.

 

[PT Addiction]

Spoke with the Porsche Centre today who did the update. They say they haven’t changed anything with the brakes. They did say, however, that the update has effectively rewritten evenrything from before and the far will relearn the driver’s style etc. On reflection when I got the car I thought the breaks had no bite but this improved with driving. Let’s see how it gets on.

One good turn deserves another… thought I’d reciprocate with a response based on some information I now have. One of the things the AMB5 update addresses is the Porsche Stability Management (PSM). The PSM really shines in track racing but it does come into play in everyday-driving. The PSM encompasses several control systems such as the brakes (ABS), automatic brake differential (ABD) and a couple of others. These along with the brake booster control unit have been updated to some degree or another. This latter function may explain why some people have more bite when braking. I have notice the same thing in my case. I have also noticed that when backing into my sloped driveaway, the abrupt movement from resuming in reverse after braking depends on how hard I press the brake pedal. Interestingly, the depressed brake pedal will stay down, with the depth of pedal depending on how hard the brakes were depressed. This characteristic was not present before.

Back to abrupt movement, this is a synchronization issue. The timing is off between the moment the accelerator pedal is depressed and the release of the “hold” from motor/friction brake actuation. Improvements in this area still need to be made as my problem has not gone away completely but backing in the garage is a little more manageable.

Another observation, the functionality of the PSM has improved for stop-and-go traffic. I’ve noticed a bit more creep when moving forward and backwards. We will see how much more things improve with time.

 

[submatrix]

Interestingly, the depressed brake pedal will stay down, with the depth of pedal depending on how hard the brakes were depressed. This characteristic was not present before.

Is this not the standard brake hold function?

 

[PT Addiction]

Is this not the standard brake hold function?

Edit
It is the "hold" function. In my case, when in "hold" on an incline, the brakes stay depressed until the accelerator is depressed. Before, this was not the case, or at least it was not that noticeable. Also, when the "hold" function is engaged, its light indicator should be visible on the instrument cluster but I don't see it.

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