space...the final frontier of problems.

[TycanNewHampshire]

Okay, we got out of my son's lacrosse summer practice and went to the mall to kill three birds with one-stone: Get nee cleats, cahrge EA, get a bit to eat.
Well, the mall closed in 15 min and for the first time, all bu tone spot was full o fthe EA Charging stations. 3 were new leafs and my Taycan. The 350kW were full, so I plugged into the 150kw at 55% the Leaf next to me was already at 85% on the 350kW Charger.
I wend inside, only to see all food court stores closed. The rest of the mall was closed and lights turned off half-way down the hall, trying to find a Dick's or Foot Locker. I did not get food or shoes and took my son back to the car.
Well, the same 3 were there and the one at 85% was just switching to 90% and had a total time of 47m (shows starting at 67%). Mine was at 83% with only 12min of charging on the 'lower' 150kW plug.
This got me thinking.....these cars charge SLOW! With more and more 'economy' EV's out there, I might quickly run into a challenge of the driver who charges above 80% on purpose, and or there being no free slots due to it taking 50min to charge 25-27% of there battery and them plugging up the 350kW plug when they will be lucky to get 70-80kW of charge. This could be an issue.
Can we petition the EV community, EV America to issue guidance to other owners to what plug level they max out at and to keep the faster ones available for others that can use it? A Monthly newsletter, or something might be helpful. And/or 'free charging credits' for those that choose the appropriate charging plug for their vehicle.
If they keep making these cheep EV cars, we will be beholden to a new limitation, the one that is rate-limiting for other cars max charge time, which will keep open spaces full and those that are open are not maximum plugs as those that cant use the extra power are occupying them.

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[NC_Taycan]

I agree it's a matter of courtesy (use the fastest charger your car supports, but not a higher one). But what happens if a Leaf driver shows up and all stalls except 350 kW are taken? More charging stations is the answer, but of course that costs the most...

 

[Jhenson29]

I don’t public charge, so it doesn’t make me much difference for now, but I think it would be nice if the chargers could support multiple cars at a time. Couldn’t all three Leafs run off of one 350kW charger? (If the charger supported it?)

Or if a Leaf was plugged into one and you could also plug in and pick up the leftover available power.

 

[TycanNewHampshire]

I honestly think is is going to be a large problem, relatively soon! We need to start to publish EV Charging etiquette that all EV users/forums adopt and then there is a social reinforcement as well as adoption when purchasing an EV in the beginning.

I will give you my first horror story....I was traveling from CT-to-NY for my first long-trip. I stopped at an EV-America Charging station with 4 stalls, 8 units. Only one unit was functioning and there was an Audi eTron SUV in the area, he told me all the others are broken and I asked how long he had.....he said "check your app", whatever that means.
He then had it up to 87% knows I am waiting for the only charger that works, leaves his car and walks into Walmart. He returns with 99% charged....I asked he knew it is not recommended to charge over around 85%. He stated "there is no law against going to 100% and I don't like your attitude"........eh, er, ugh, WHAT? I hadn't said two words to this guy!

He charges past 100% until it shuts down on its own, takes his time and then finally leaves. I was in transit way out of state, it was the only working charger and was late to a meeting. There needs to be some sort of 'star' rating or social dynamic that could limit your charging priority or que to charge next, based on common principles of etiquette and being courteous to others.

I hope Karma is real, as some point, he will need to charge and I hope a leaf that just plugged in is in front of him and he takes 1 1/2 hours to get to their desired charge.

EA should also think about Geo-tagging and allow drivers to 'check in to a que' so you can be auto-signed to a most optimized charger....will prevent lurking and fights over 'who was next', have the unit only recognize and work to charge for the individual that is next in the que and assigned that unit. You could even choose which units you want to be put 'in line' for when you pull up, based on your charging location on the car to prevent assigning a unit that won't reach your charging port.

Whatever the solution, the industry needs to start to think about this now! Before it is a major problem!

 

[Boss Hogg]

Charging networks could manage this issue through pricing structure at locations where short chagring sessions are important like motorway service stations. 1) higher prices for faster chargers and 2) increasingly higher prices for charging when SOC level is above 60%, 80%, 90%

 

[mikeva]

... We need to start to publish EV Charging etiquette that all EV users/forums adopt and then there is a social reinforcement as well as adoption when purchasing an EV in the beginning.

I have been driving cars for over 60 years and a very large number of drivers have no interest in acknowledging, let alone following what I would call 'driver etiquette' so - to me - this is never going to happen..... for example, I have been to multiple crowded gas stations where someone leaves their car blocking the pump as they go in to go to the bathroom, have a smoke, eat etc. and I really don't expect the normal BEV driver to be that much different.....

 

[TycanNewHampshire]

@mikeva you are most likely right...I guess I am just an optimist as the collective good, could benefit all?
@Boss Hogg , I don't like the additional charges for 'faster' or if you are at a certain level to start with. Especially with the 'faster', I would think you would want to incentivize turn-over and throughput of the system to get more cars charged. I would be in favor of a ramped rate for those that go over a time, perhaps 30min. Or something reasonable that is enough to get someone to another charging station vs. saying at that one which someone may need as it is their stop-over for a trip and doesn't have the luxury to 'wait around' or go to another one.
Some of the other issues will be condo/apartment owners that do not have a home-charger and only can charge at a public station.....if the network doesn't grow or add different options to cycle through a waiting que, it could get bad quickly when all of the new owners of these EV's (I see about 5-different advertisements for EV's that are non-teslas a day....and I don't watch a lot of TV) are out on the road and needing a 'fill'.
It would be smart for traditional gas-stations to start to add some chargers and secure revenue then they can retain the property and locations and eventually switch over to all electric and still capture the store traffic that wants to pop in and get something to eat or drink. Just a thought for a chain and where the market is going.

 

[NC_Taycan]

I'd rather have American drivers learn that the left lane is for passing only...

 

[TycanNewHampshire]

I'd rather have American drivers learn that the left lane is for passing only...

Excellent one! I fully agree! When you have a Mass license, they make you check a box on your application that says: If someone is on my hinder, and I am in the fast lane, look in your rear view mirror and acknowledge that you see them.....then proceed to do, absolutely nothing! Until they switch to the right lane to pass, at that point switch to the right land and cut them off....then when they go back to the fast lane and overtake you to avoid your, perceived, erratic and frustrating driving 'style', go ahead and raise your arms in confusion as to why they are irritated, and then give them a 'strong bird' to let them know just how much you truly felt entitled to drive in your own oblivion and never be bothered to move your body enough to hit the turn-signal and gently apply pressure to one side fo the steering wheel to open the passing lane. After all, how dare they go faster than you and if they are, they must be a jerk...so let 'em have it and feel better about yourself. Remember, people on the road are there for 'your benefit', you are not a part of a community, they should simply react to what you decide to do and they should shut-up an be grateful that you got up for the first time before noon this week and blessed humanity with your driving skills on this day.
Lastly, for my advanced drivers, don't bother with the actual blinker/turn-signal...it is only a sign of weakness and prevents you from being rear-ended, which you want, to collect money for your RICR upgrades and complaints of chronic pain from the fender-bender.....afterall your supper wacky, sticky-skunk weed (your medicine) is expensive and again, others should pay for it, not you. You are awesome and everyone else is a cancer on society and should be called names like racist, misogynist or a trans-phobe. After all, even if it is not true, it is impossible to have a privileged white male, who is all of these things by his DNA (wait, I thought we all believed your DNA doesn't define you.....ooops, I am not up on the times, I better read another self-hate book and conform before I get cancelled) and can't defend themselves; and if they do just say "why are you having white-rage, seeeeeeeee, this proves you are a racist and a bigot. Have fun out there culture warriors, remember you are better and smarter than everyone else! , now where is my punch card for my Starbucks (not realizing they are a consumer of the things they hate).

 

[atebit]

…aaaand we’re back.

Tesla has tried to limit the time drivers spend at super chargers because in CA there are not enough to go around, so their GPS will route you to do say, 4, 20 minute stops when one stop will do, in order to free up stalls. In the rest of the country where SCs are generally well undersubscribed, this is a PITA. So be careful what you wish for.

Hopefully, the J1772 EVSE charging network will grow, have some diversity of suppliers, the Tesla SC network will open up, etc. but it will take time. Having said that, there will always be jackasses out there, no amount of scaling will change that.

 

[Snappy77]

Maybe an EV is not for you because this situation is only solved by more charging stations. First come, first served. Until that time comes you may be destined for continued unhappiness.

If I'm at a charging station and you pull up, I couldn't care less about your SoC, where you came from and where you gotta go, and the things you want to do. I'm a really nice guy, I just can't worry about you and everybody else's logistics.

 

[Genau]

Maybe an EV is not for you because this situation is only solved by more charging stations. First come, first served. Until that time comes you may be destined for continued unhappiness.

If I'm at a charging station and you pull up, I couldn't care less about your SoC, where you came from and where you gotta go, and the things you want to do. I'm a really nice guy, I just can't worry about you and everybody else's logistics.

I assume you agree that for the greater good, cars not capable of high speed charging should not occupy the high speed charging spots if they can achieve their maximum charging speed at an adjacent, low speed spot. The question then is how to influence the operators of those cars to make the "greater good" choice. This appears to be an unaddressed problem that will grow worse with time.

 

[TycanNewHampshire]

Maybe an EV is not for you because this situation is only solved by more charging stations. First come, first served. Until that time comes you may be destined for continued unhappiness.

If I'm at a charging station and you pull up, I couldn't care less about your SoC, where you came from and where you gotta go, and the things you want to do. I'm a really nice guy, I just can't worry about you and everybody else's logistics.

I don't worry about others logistics, however I handle that situation completely differently. If only one charging station is usable and someone pulls up and said they were in a hurry and I had time, I would pull out and let them have it and continue afterward.
Similar thing happened in my state and a fellow Taycan owner pulled up and started charging next to me on the 150kw and I was on the 350kw, he mentioned he has had problems with that charger and I offered to finish my charging session and pulled out and he pulled in.
To me it is no different than someone who is in a hurry in a line to purchase something. If a fellow individual is in need and I can help them out and I am not in as big of a rush, feel free to go ahead of me.
Being nice and empathetic are much different. If someone is in a stressful situation and I can help relieve that and bring joy to their day, I will. To me it is not about pleasantries, it is about being courteous to others that you may not know and have the generosity be passed on. If you 'couldn't care less' about others needs, I highly doubt that anyone that has the need would agree you were "nice". You also don't have to worry about others logistics, just offer some assistance to those that may need it when asked....if you are in a hurry, perhaps you can't offer the help? But if you have the ability to assist and choose not to? Is that being a 'really nice guy'?

as for solutions: I really like the idea of having the faster charger stations for those that can take the extra speed.

 

[Dave777]

So I ran into my first charger etiquette “incident“ today. I parked at an Electrify Canada station and plugged into an available 150kw spot. All worked well as it has before. I had some shopping to do and planned to be away 20mins or so. shopping took a bit longer and I returned at just about 31mins. There was this guy (whose Kia Soul is plugged into the 350kw charger ?!) . He was just about to ‘try’ and unplug my car!! I asked him what was he trying to do? He says since my free “grace “ period was over he was being neighbourly and save me some money. ( $0.40 ?)
I pointed out, that was my responsibility, he wouldn’t get the plug out anyway as it is locked, and possibly risk damage to my connection or worse a safety issue. I emphasised that he should not be in the habit of touching other peoples cars, and asked him why he would be in a 350kw spot when there was a 2x 50kw and 2x150 kw spots available? No answer to that one…I left shaking my head.

Clearly a self-appointed “EV charger Cop”.

 

[TycanNewHampshire]

So I ran into my first charger etiquette “incident“ today. I parked at an Electrify Canada station and plugged into an available 150kw spot. All worked well as it has before. I had some shopping to do and planned to be away 20mins or so. shopping took a bit longer and I returned at just about 31mins. There was this guy (whose Kia Soul is plugged into the 350kw charger ?!) . He was just about to ‘try’ and unplug my car!! I asked him what was he trying to do? He says since my free “grace “ period was over he was being neighbourly and save me some money. ( $0.40 ?)
I pointed out, that was my responsibility, he wouldn’t get the plug out anyway as it is locked, and possibly risk damage to my connection or worse a safety issue. I emphasised that he should not be in the habit of touching other peoples cars, and asked him why he would be in a 350kw spot when there was a 2x 50kw and 2x150 kw spots available? No answer to that one…I left shaking my head.

Clearly a self-appointed “EV charger Cop”.

This going back to my point I made a while back that the user should receive a PIN (either general to the account - this would be easier to remember, OR a session PIN that is texted to you, or perhaps you can perform this with the App or RFID card, depending on provider) and then only you and you alone would be able to stop that session.

Unless this simple feature is added to all stations, I fear we will see this more and more as for the most part, many of our selfie-taking, blog posting, Twitter handling, and instagram self-absorbed drivers will default to a logic that makes sense in their navel gazing universe of self-buddha therosophy that their reason for feeling their time is more important than yours; will manifest into malice in shutting down your charge, so they can get instant gratification and not have to wait with the rest of the plebs. Afterall, they are more important than you and they have things to do, like login to the next Fortnight Battle Royale.

But not to worry, they will project their views on you through empathetic eyes and twist this horrific act of selfishness into one that makes you feel selfish for wanting to take it to a level of your choosing......They will have you beat right there.....and you must remember that it is you that is actually oppressing them and making them wait and you should be grateful that they were there to help you get back to ever trying, but never able to obtain, their transient level of morality on this particular scenario, on this particular day.

Makes me want to install a biometric scanner to signin and out and if you don't match and try to end the session, you are awarded free electroshock therapy, gratis, to help society battle the mental health crisis.

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