Taycan battery

[LewChappers]

I have a 72 reg base taycan. Does anyone know what the position is in regards to how long the batteries last and what the cost implications are to replace. Just decided how long I should keep for. Thanks

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[Zsport]

Just for reference, have you noticed how many Toyota Prius are on the road from the 1990s with old battery technology that should give you an indication of how long the Taycan battery will last probably 500k to 750k miles and 20 years because that’s the minimum duration use for durability testing.

 

[Zsport]

One more thing you’re not even close to using 100% of the battery capacity it has over 10% cushion so you’re never charging to max you’re never overloading the battery, I worked for Toyota R&D for 15 years we would do durability testing on competitors batteries and even at 70% capacity those batteries are still incredibly powerful. They will last a really long time. In the US government mandates that they have to last 10 years 100k miles so yeah there’s that.

 

[LewChappers]

One more thing you’re not even close to using 100% of the battery capacity it has over 10% cushion so you’re never charging to max you’re never overloading the battery, I worked for Toyota R&D for 15 years we would do durability testing on competitors batteries and even at 70% capacity those batteries are still incredibly powerful. They will last a really long time. In the US government mandates that they have to last 10 years 100k miles so yeah there’s that.

ok thank you. The question was more aimed at what if something goes wrong, can one cell as such be replaced and is it under warranty!?

 

[lcarron]

ok thank you. The question was more aimed at what if something goes wrong, can one cell as such be replaced and is it under warranty!?

Porsche claimed they can replace one module if needed and should be covered by the warranty which I think is 8 years not 10.

 

[LewChappers]

Porsche claimed they can replace one module if needed and should be covered by the warranty which I think is 8 years not 10.

I wonder what the price of that would be!

 

[D00notD00d]

The cost of replacing one module is circa £7-8k. Most of that is labour.
The modules cost around £800. There are 28 or 33 modules. A full replacement is circa £40k. That requires less labour than replacing individual modules.

Battery state of health/range is governed by the least healthy module\cell.

There are many threads here about battery reliability, on board charger reliability, battery warranty and state of heath.

 

[Donar]

9 years, 224 days, 6 hours and 22 minutes in average.

 

[Tooney]

Porsche claimed they can replace one module if needed and should be covered by the warranty which I think is 8 years not 10.

Many owners here have reported it takes 3 to 4 months or longer from the time their Taycan goes into service for electrical problem for diagnosis, repair, or replacement of HV battery until car is returned to them. Diagnosis and repair authorization must be approved by Porsche HQ in Germany, modules/batteries take long time to arrive, in US repair depends on schedule of fly-in battery doctor, blah, blah, blah.
Read the many posts/threads on forum about HV electrical and battery problems.

 

[LewChappers]

The cost of replacing one module is circa £7-8k. Most of that is labour.
The modules cost around £800. There are 28 or 33 modules. A full replacement is circa £40k. That requires less labour than replacing individual modules.

Battery state of health/range is governed by the least healthy module\cell.

There are many threads here about battery reliability, on board charger reliability, battery warranty and state of heath.

yes so as I thought - you don’t really want to go past the 8 year warranty or almost certainly will be lumped with a minimum 8k bill!

 

[D00notD00d]

Please excuse another long post. There’s a lot to be said on this subject, other owners share my dilemma.

The Porsche Approved Warranty is marketed as providing peace of mind, longevity and value retention.

Porsche has been selling hybrids since 2010 and dealers still sell those with an Approved Warranty once their battery warranty has expired (early hybrids had a 7 year battery warranty).

The Approved Warranty terms say:
“Below is an exhaustive list of items commonly subject to wear and tear, which if
fail due to wear and tear will not be covered by Your Policy:
• Wiper blades
• Tyres
• Brake pads and brake discs
• Shock absorber
• Clutch disc and clutch pressure plate
• Drive belt including deflection and tensioning roller
• Spark plugs
• Batteries (incl. high-voltage batteries)”.

There is a lack of clarity regarding what constitutes fair wear and tear in the case of HV batteries. Obviously reasonable linear degradation is fair. I would contend that a total failure of one or more battery modules in a case where charging guidance has been followed and the number of charges is low (consistent with low mileage and no frequent minor top-ups) is unreasonable and unexpected.

Over the last few months I have tried to get the Porsche GB CEO’s office to provide more clarity about what is considered normal wear and tear in the case of HV batteries. Arguably, by now, there should be sufficient field and test evidence about that. The other potentially contentious point is what constitutes a manufacturing defect - the specific 8 year battery warranty only covers manufacturing defects. That introduces contention about wear, use and abuse exceptions within the 8 year period.
It is likely that Porsche will somehow flow down their defect warranty obligations to their suppliers.

This is latest dialogue:

“the Porsche Vehicles high voltage battery is covered for material defects for a period of 8 years or 160,000 km. Therefore, if a material defect is determined within that period the repair can be covered by the warranty. If the battery fails due to other factors that do not relate to a manufacturing defect, then the repair will not be covered under the HVB warranty.”

“Should any fault with our vehicles develop, then it is the responsibility of the trained Porsche Technicians within our Porsche Centres to determine if it was the result of a manufacturing defect. If a fault is considered a manufacturing defect, and within the either New Car Guarantee or as part of the Porsche Approved Warranty then a warranty claim may be progressed.”

And:

“Currently, there isn't a further warranty beyond the 8-year/160,000 km for the HVB; however, Porsche constantly reviews their products and services, and if any updates to the warranty policy become available, they will be communicated accordingly.”

“Following the expiry of the 8 year Warranty, Porsche can consider providing support on a case by case basis.”

Any warranty claims that Porsche dealers have submitted on my behalf have always had a fair outcome. In one case I had to dig my heels in, but there was still a fair answer. I’d like to think that would also apply on a contentious point about what is a manufacturing defect or fair wear and tear in a HV battery, especially given repair cost implications and brand reputation/positioning.

Note that there are many related parts other than the HV battery that the Approved Warranty does not specifically exclude on a wear and tear basis, all also expensive to replace. Not all of the 140k Taycan drivers use this forum, but some of those who do have reported the following failures, making the Approved Warranty worthwhile to cover these:

• Charging port covers
• On board charging system
• On board charging system inverters
• Power Regeneration/Recuperation System
• Battery module internal control units and busbars
• Heat pump
• Battery thermal management/cooling system components
• Traction/Drive Motors
• Software Fault
• Panoramic Roof

The Approved Warranty does not cover a failure of the HV Battery Protection Plate to provide reasonable protection to the HV Battery. Also a contentious point which would need a legal precedent to be established.

Stick or twist?
Crystallise & then iterate your losses at £2k+ per month?
Is there anything else which looks as good and which you’d rather drive?
Would you end up in a car that looks exactly the same but costs £60k more?
Take a gamble/leap of faith on longevity and Porsche fairness, or other warranties becoming available? Warranty Wise have just entered the EV market.

 

[Tooney]

@D00notD00d By "Porsche Approved Warranty" do you mean an optional 'extended' warranty in UK beyond the manufacturer's standard new car warranty?
If "Porsche Approved Warranty" is an optional 'extended' warranty, is the contract an agreement with Porsche itself, or some third-party?
I ask because in US, the Porsche Vehicle Service Plan is actually with a third-party provider.

 

[wmras]

@D00notD00d

I ask because in US, the Porsche Vehicle Service Plan is actually with a third-party provider.

I am comfortable with our Porsche Vehicle Service Plan - Dealerships are also third-party providers! Of course, it is better if you love your dealership.

 

[D00notD00d]

@D00notD00d By "Porsche Approved Warranty" do you mean an optional 'extended' warranty in UK beyond the manufacturer's standard new car warranty?
If "Porsche Approved Warranty" is an optional 'extended' warranty, is the contract an agreement with Porsche itself, or some third-party?
I ask because in US, the Porsche Vehicle Service Plan is actually with a third-party provider.

Here’s the detail.
http://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/porscheservice/vehicleinformation/approvedwarranty/

It is a well regarded insurance warranty, (Acasta European Insurance) administered by and contracted with Porsche GB, the importer.
It is available to purchase as a follow on to the manufacturer’s 3 year new car warranty; or provided for a 2 year period with all Porsche approved used purchases; or for purchase at any point subject to a 111 point Porsche dealer check. The cost is around £1k per year including breakdown assistance, slightly cheaper the more years you buy in one go.

 

[Tooney]

@D00notD00d The Porsche EV Service Protection Plan (Platinum) available in US makes it clear that repair/replacement of the HV battery is not included:

No "wear and tear" ambiguity at all.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...eement-us-example-contract.18101/#post-278406

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