Taycan GTS vs Tesla Model S Plaid

[Rusty Griswald]

Having owned four different EV luxury/ performance vehicles during the past 5 years, I will agree on the Tesla software being better than others.
The software is best part of the car.
Also the ease of charging at supercharger network without hassles or issues is a huge win for their brand. Have a Audi E tron GT RS coming early next month.

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[4424]

keeping second-hand prices stable is super crucial for any high-end products. if Porsche could implement some of the updates and give us a few percentage bumps in range it would keep the existing owners happy and the second hand prices afloat for the first generation taycan. they sold over 150,000 units of the first gen taycan it's not a small amount of cars on the market.

I have never heard of Inno Drive killing people. Tesla with FSD is on a killing spree. Not sure how this is better.
https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/...ot-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-report-crash-death

Because inno drive is so bad nobody uses it, compared to over 2 billion miles on FSD.

 

[TDinDC]

Because inno drive is so bad nobody uses it, compared to over 2 billion miles on FSD.

I use it.

FSD and Innodrive have different objectives and it’s very hard to move from one system to the other, but if you can get your head around that Innodrive is a driver assist rather than driver replacement technology, you can get the most out of it.

Every time new technology comes along, the semi luddites claim that it takes the talent, joy, or connection out of driving. Does it take more talent to drive a car without ABS? Sure, but I don’t need to sacrifice ABS to feel like I’m really driving. Same thing with PDK. I have a normally aspirated 911 with a manual transmission and I love it to death, but PDKs are objectively better, particularly with higher horsepower, so I’m not going to over romanticize manual transmissions (but I’ll never sell mine either). Same with the Tesla and Porsche systems. Had them both. Love them both. Don’t feel like I’m less of a person or enthusiast by using them. But, they are, by design, intentionally radically different. They are not trying to achieve the same goal. The Porsche interventions are supposed to be seamless and barely noticeable and you can override without a hitch. Tesla is supposed to take over and you have to fight it a bit to override. Danger with Tesla is that you rely too much when it is tempting you to do exactly that. Danger with Porsche is that you start to rely on it like you would the Tesla, but the Porsche isn’t singing in your ear to cede to the system in the first place.

I’ve realized that a lot of people who trash Innodrive either (1) have yet to learn how to use it or (2) have never used it but hate the idea they have of it.

it’s just another tool to aid the driver. That’s it.

P.S. Porsche does a really sh*tty job of labelling and explaining its various assistance technology, so I am using the term "innodrive" in this post to refer to the complete package of assistance technologies that you can spec on Taycans.

 

[PickledRamps]

In what way?
Does their steering software give a better feel, or their air suspension a better ride/body control/handling combination than the Taycan?

I am pretty impressed by the software on my CT4S, I have torque vectoring, active anti roll bars, rear wheel steering and I think the stability over-ride is pretty well programmed too.

I don’t find the sat nav problematic, the charging software is a bit eccentric but easy enough to use once you have twigged what it is doing.

Overall I have been pretty impressed by the car software on my Taycan.

I recently switched from a 2020 Model S LR to a CPO 2021 Taycan 4S. Few people would deny that the driving dynamics are far superior on a Porsche. It's the difference between a surgical scalpel and a hatchet.

However, IMO, the software/electronics/UI/PCM are garbage. Nothing works consistently. Contemporary cars are so heavily dependent on software that there will be glitches, but in my Tesla it generally worked. In the Taycan, it is constant data connection issues, app failures, resets, reboots, etc. I had heard so much criticism about the Tesla's endless buttonless sub-menu UI that I was expecting an improvement. It is considerably worse. And ApplePlay is terrible. There is no keypad for telephone while driving; how do you get an extension? You cant activate phone from steering wheel. You can't access map behind steering wheel or navigate to contacts like you can with native map.

One vehicle was obviously designed with the precision of German engineers and the other by California software developers.

And the charging for Porsche. Yikes!, so bad, but that is well documented so I won't rant too much about that.

I suppose I would still chose the Taycan over a Tesla for the obvious reason, but you give up everything else.

 

[Hirschaj]

In the Taycan, it is constant data connection issues, app failures, resets, reboots, etc.

Just so you’re aware, some of us don’t have these issues very often. For example, I’ve had to reboot my PCM about 5 times in 1.5 years. I also don’t have the data connection issue so maybe that’s why my PCM is more stable. I’m not saying this software is great because it’s definitely not, but just wanted you to be aware that some of us get along just fine with it.

 

[f1eng]

I recently switched from a 2020 Model S LR to a CPO 2021 Taycan 4S. Few people would deny that the driving dynamics are far superior on a Porsche. It's the difference between a surgical scalpel and a hatchet.

However, IMO, the software/electronics/UI/PCM are garbage. Nothing works consistently. Contemporary cars are so heavily dependent on software that there will be glitches, but in my Tesla it generally worked. In the Taycan, it is constant data connection issues, app failures, resets, reboots, etc. I had heard so much criticism about the Tesla's endless buttonless sub-menu UI that I was expecting an improvement. It is considerably worse. And ApplePlay is terrible. There is no keypad for telephone while driving; how do you get an extension? You cant activate phone from steering wheel. You can't access map behind steering wheel or navigate to contacts like you can with native map.

One vehicle was obviously designed with the precision of German engineers and the other by California software developers.

And the charging for Porsche. Yikes!, so bad, but that is well documented so I won't rant too much about that.

I suppose I would still chose the Taycan over a Tesla for the obvious reason, but you give up everything else.

I split the software into “car” software and “entertainment” software.

It seems we can agree that the car software is markedly superior in the Porsche.

I am a bit old school on the entertainment side, having seen driver tests showing using a hands free phone to be the least distraction of all the non-driving features of modern cars but similar to driving drunk I don’t use them much, so whether they are good or not isn’t a big deal for me.

I do have my ‘phone connected if I take it with me, in case anybody calls and mine works fine from the steering wheel control.

I have never had a PCM reset or reboot but did once in the last 18 months just have “Taycan” in the centre display but the car drove normally so i ignored it - nothing on there of great importance.

I haven’t bothered with Apple CarPlay, it does nothing I want.

So for me, any superiority a Tesla may have are in its aspects that of tiny interest for my use and the areas where Porsche’s software are way better than Teslasare those I consider important - so easy decision for me.

 

[PickledRamps]

Just so you’re aware, some of us don’t have these issues very often. For example, I’ve had to reboot my PCM about 5 times in 1.5 years. I also don’t have the data connection issue so maybe that’s why my PCM is more stable. I’m not saying this software is great because it’s definitely not, but just wanted you to be aware that some of us get along just fine with it.

It may be just my PCM; I am working on that now. However, I would not consider the need to reboot evrery 2-3 months a resounding endorsement. Also, they all have data connection natively. That's how the apps work, traffic information is received, etc.

 

[Hirschaj]

It may be just my PCM; I am working on that now. However, I would not consider the need to reboot evrery 2-3 months a resounding endorsement. Also, they all have data connection natively. That's how the apps works, traffic information is received, etc.

You may have misread my statement. I said I don't have data connection issues. My cars data connection has always worked fine. And rebooting once every few months is far less than just about all of my other electronic devices, so I'm good with it. Does your PCM have the latest software update that is supposed to help with stability? I forget the name of the campaign but there is a thread about it on here somewhere. I'll try to find it and post a link to it.

Update: here's that link... https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/whats-the-current-taycan-software-version.19037/

 

[PickledRamps]

I split the software into “car” software and “entertainment” software.

It seems we can agree that the car software is markedly superior in the Porsche.

I am a bit old school on the entertainment side, having seen driver tests showing using a hands free phone to be the least distraction of all the non-driving features of modern cars but similar to driving drunk I don’t use them much, so whether they are good or not isn’t a big deal for me.

I do have my ‘phone connected if I take it with me, in case anybody calls and mine works fine from the steering wheel control.

I have never had a PCM reset or reboot but did once in the last 18 months just have “Taycan” in the centre display but the car drove normally so i ignored it - nothing on there of great importance.

I haven’t bothered with Apple CarPlay, it does nothing I want.

So for me, any superiority a Tesla may have are in its aspects that of tiny interest for my use and the areas where Porsche’s software are way better than Teslasare those I consider important - so easy decision for me.

I do get that. And it makes perfect sense, but we are talking about a daily driver, and one that is deep in the six figures, so while driving dynamics reign supreme for most on this forum, it is 2024 and I would still like for simple things like Spotify to actually work; for apps to load; for a solid data connection. These are simple things that are just part of being a car maker in 2024

 

[Hirschaj]

it is 2024 and I would still like for simple things like Spotify to actually work; for apps to load; for a solid data connection.

This is a 100% reasonable ask and something that Porsche needs to fix if they want to remain competitive.

 

[f1eng]

it is 2024 and I would still like for simple things like Spotify to actually work; for apps to load;

Maybe I just live in a better place for connections then, afaik never had a problem connecting in 18 months and the car software has loaded except that one time.

It should “just work” for everyone, of course.

I have never used Spotify, I have my recordings on a memory stick plugged into a socket in the centre console. Mind you I am a lifetime music lover and don’t find a car a satisfactory place to listen to music so usually off.

 

[TDinDC]

However, IMO, the software/electronics/UI/PCM are garbage. Nothing works consistently. Contemporary cars are so heavily dependent on software that there will be glitches, but in my Tesla it generally worked. In the Taycan, it is constant data connection issues, app failures, resets, reboots, etc. I had heard so much criticism about the Tesla's endless buttonless sub-menu UI that I was expecting an improvement. It is considerably worse. And ApplePlay is terrible. There is no keypad for telephone while driving; how do you get an extension? You cant activate phone from steering wheel. You can't access map behind steering wheel or navigate to contacts like you can with native map.

I agree with the general point that the Porsche software is nowhere near as user friendly as in the Tesla, and Porsche foregoes little things that would make life so much easier.

I know this is anecdotal, but in my two years of ownership, I have had no perceivable connectivity issues and I have never had to reset PCM.

I like Appleplay better than the Tesla navigation (although I liked Tesla navigation too).

 

[PickledRamps]

You may have misread my statement. I said I don't have data connection issues. My cars data connection has always worked fine. And rebooting once every few months is far less than just about all of my other electronic devices, so I'm good with it. Does your PCM have the latest software update that is supposed to help with stability? I forget the name of the campaign but there is a thread about it on here somewhere. I'll try to find it and post a link to it.

Update: here's that link... https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/whats-the-current-taycan-software-version.19037/

Thanks for the link. It was recently indeed updated (when it went into the shop because the heat wasn't working). There may just be some software conflict on the back-end that is giving me trouble. Porsche Customer Care has been pleasantly responsive. I must say that when there is an issue, it is nice to be able to speak with someone.

 

[Hirschaj]

Thanks for the link. It was recently indeed updated (when it went into the shop because the heat wasn't working). There may just be some software conflict on the back-end that is giving me trouble. Porsche Customer Care has been pleasantly responsive. I must say that when there is an issue, it is nice to be able to speak with someone.

I hope they are able to get you all fixed. This can be an incredible car. It can also be a PITA for people who have these nagging issues. Keep us posted please.

 

[absent]

I find it funny when some Joe shmo complains he has to "explain himself" when Elon Musk says "something stupid".
The guy responsible for the biggest revolution in electric cars, who built a company(from nothing) with bigger value then GM, Ford and Stellantis put together.
...but the nobody "expert" feels the need to explain.........
Btw, Taycan GTS, at about $40k-60k higher price, should be better put together and of higher quality materials then a car that runs circles around it in every measurable performance category.
Regardless, it still is a very overpriced, very average and overrated car.

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