Tesla Fanboy Journey

[or1]

same Journey - tesla victim since 2013 (5 Tesla's until 2020) - 2020 Taycan Turbo - Love it - pros/cons - better car than Tesla, but a less better EV than Tesla - trade off's but i like that the brakes don't suck and it's better made…

• Innodrive - meh - not as good as Tesla Autopilot - but ACC/ALK work ok when I want them to
  • but no there near Tesla's "quality" but Autopilot is dangerous and people rely on it too much
  • in my experience in North America Innodrive is too quick to slow down for real/imagined speed zone changes - I've had it disabled since purchase - and use ACC
  • Active Lane Keeping works ok but will disengage with no warning (chime) and can't follow roads I know for a fact my 2018 Model 3 Performance had no problems with…so "meh"
• RWS - yes it helps get it
• Glass is great - makes an already quiet car next level quiet…

welcome - you'll love it - but it's more an EV take from a traditional sports car company vs. a take on what a car should be from a software company - different pros/cons - there is no perfect.

Porsche makes a great car and a mediocre EV
Tesla makes a great EV and a mediocre car
Porsche is as good at mechanical engineering as Tesla is at software
Tesla is as good at mechanical engineering as Porsche is at doing software

the two companies have different focuses.

I mostly agree. But I think the EV-side of Taycan is quite a lot better than mediocre. Software glitches and deficiencies, yes. But the EV drivetrain is really good in my book.

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[daveo4EV]

I mostly agree. But I think the EV-side of Taycan is quite a lot better than mediocre. Software glitches and deficiencies, yes. But the EV drivetrain is really good in my book.

I'll politely stick by my "guns" for "mediocre EV on the basis of the following:

• lack of "tech"
• two speed transmission that is mostly pointless
• anemic range vs. competitive offerings - EV drive train efficiency is lacking
• launch control required to get max performance (unprepared my Taycan Turbo is slower than an AWD Model Y at a stop light) - up to any legal limit
  • on the freeway under "passing" scenairo's the Taycan has more head room than the Model Y - but that only shows up at speeds that will get you arrested anywhere other than Germany.
• lack of OTA updates
• lack of one peddle driving as an option
• software glitches
• horrible PCM user interface (not just Taycan true of all Porsche products given PCM is their "thing")
• terrible charging network
  • and really really long start times for fast charging sessions - why does my son's Model Y w/an adapter start it's charging session about 6x faster than my Taycan - even when using the Porsche app to start both sessions?
• lack of plug&charge in my 2020 Taycan (and even if it did have it the implementation only works for EA , not other networks).
• about the same stamina on track as my 2018 Model 3 Performance model (10 laps or less at Laguna Seca at full performance)
  • while stamina is the same as a 2018 Model 3 Performance handling, braking, confidence and composure go hands down to the Taycan vs. any Tesla offering - OMG this car is soooo good - hunting down 911 GT3's uphill out of turn 6 is pure joy…
• complex and indecipherable charge scheduling and target charge % (a key ownership experience for home charging)
  • lack of basic controls for EV charging
    • AMP control
    • "start" now function
  • lack of schedule based charging - start every day at 11 pm and charge to 85%
• basic lack of awarness of EV issues, solutions, and common pitfalls in the dealer and service network - EV's are still "foreign" to the ICE industry and receive 2nd class support and focus when you co-mingle them into the ICE service network (i.e. only 1 or 2 guys at the shop are "trained" to work the Taycan - longer cycle times for diagnostics, incorrect/false information regarding charging issues and solutions) - EV is not their focus and it shows
• PMC+/PMCC - I'll just leave this here with no further comment

as a "complete" EV platform the Taycan is lacking - but the mechanical engineering of the drive train is top notch - but as a total EV experience it lags more focused EV competitors.

the reliability of the drive train so far has been stellar - and it's a good drive train with few faults - but lacks any "push" of technology that sets it apart from competitive alternatives

Porsche makes a great car, and a mediocre EV but I understand others may disagree - having come from years of Tesla I was hoping Porsche would exceed "parity" - in my book they've barely matched my 2018 Model 3 Performance. Kudos for being a better mechanical platform than my 2014 Model S P85D (6 years later) - but the P85D trounces my Taycan at efficiency and range and over all 'EV' feature set.

on track my 2020 Taycan Turbo is LIGHT YEARS better than the Model S P85D…and handling, road noise, and other traditional car aspects the Taycan is way better than Tesla's offerings.

 

[CRAIG BROMLEY]

I'll politely stick by my "guns" for "mediocre EV on the basis of the following:

• lack of "tech"
• two speed transmission that is mostly pointless
• anemic range vs. competitive offerings - EV drive train efficiency is lacking
• launch control required to get max performance (unprepared my Taycan Turbo is slower than an AWD Model Y at a stop light)
• lack of OTA updates
• lack of one peddle driving as an option
• software glitches
• horrible user interface
• terrible charging network
  • and really really long start times for fast charging sessions - why does my son's Model Y w/an adapter start it's charging session about 6x faster than my Taycan - even when using the Porsche app to start both sessions?
• lack of plug&charge in my 2020 Taycan (and even if it did have it the implementation only works for EA , not other networks).
• about the same stamina on track as my 2018 Model 3 Performance model (10 laps or less at Laguna Seca at full performance)
  • while stamina is the same as a 2018 Model 3 Performance handling, braking, confidence and composure go hands down to the Taycan vs. any Tesla offering - OMG this car is soooo good - hunting down 911 GT3's uphill out of turn 6 is pure joy…
• complex and indecipherable charge scheduling and target charge % (a key ownership experience for home charging)
  • lack of basic controls for EV charging
    • AMP control
    • "start" now function
  • lack of schedule based charging - start every day at 11 pm and charge to 85%
• basic lack of awarness of EV issues, solutions, and common pitfalls in the dealer and service network - EV's are still "foreign" to the ICE industry and receive 2nd class support and focus when you co-mingle them into the ICE service network (i.e. only 1 or 2 guys at the shop are "trained" to work the Taycan - longer cycle times for diagnostics, incorrect/false information regarding charging issues and solutions) - EV is not their focus and it shows
• PMC+/PMCC - I'll just leave this here with no further comment

as a "complete" EV platform the Taycan is lacking - but the mechanical engineering of the drive train is top notch - but as a total EV experience it lags more focused EV competitors.

the reliability of the drive train so far has been stellar - and it's a good drive train with few faults - but lacks any "push" of technology that sets it apart from competitive alternatives

Porsche makes a great car, and a mediocre EV but I understand others may disagree - having come from years of Tesla I was hoping Porsche would exceed "parity" - in my book they've barely matched my 2018 Model 3 Performance. Kudos for being a better mechanical platform than my 2014 Model S P85D (6 years later) - but the P85D trounces my Taycan at efficiency and range and over all 'EV' feature set.

on track my 2020 Taycan Turbo is LIGHT YEARS better than the Model S P85D…and handling, road noise, and other traditional car aspects the Taycan is way better than Tesla's offerings.

Is yours the saloon Tycan or the 4S CT?

 

[daveo4EV]

Is yours the saloon Tycan or the 4S CT?

sedan/saloon - the CT was not out yet in 2020

I'm very pleased with my 2020 Taycan Turbo - because even "mediocre" EV's are better than 98% of any gasoline vehicle…but I hold Porsche to high standards and Tesla has some "pro's" in their column as a pure EV play…

that being said I'd never ever swap my Taycan for a Model S or Model 3…but Porsche has some work to do to be an excellent EV platform in total - but as a pure car they excel vs. any other offering.

 

[CRAIG BROMLEY]

sedan/saloon - the CT was not out yet in 2020

I'm very pleased with my 2020 Taycan Turbo - because even "mediocre" EV's are better than 98% of any gasoline vehicle…but I hold Porsche to high standards and Tesla has some "pro's" in their column as a pure EV play…

that being said I'd never ever swap my Taycan for a Model S or Model 3…but Porsche has some work to do to be an excellent EV platform in total - but as a pure car they excel vs. any other offering.

Would you say though that a 2023 Taycan CT has less of these issues as I've heard of improvements in terms of driving and tech since the Taycan saloon first came out?

 

[daveo4EV]

Would you say though that a 2023 Taycan CT has less of these issues as I've heard of improvements in terms of driving and tech since the Taycan saloon first came out?

2021 and later have plug&charge

I'm unaware of any "improvements" in the areas I listed…of a MY'2023 vs. my 2020

the car is excellent - but is well understood at this point in time with zero change (as is common for Porsche until a refresh - like all car makers other than Tesla)

• tech is the same - same PCM - in fact new PCM is available as a dealer update to previous models (wireless carplay & color icons being very visible changes)
• still has a two speed transmission
• range is what it is…good but not great
• car is fast fast fast in launch control - non-launch control less so but still quick
• OTA updates are either trivial or missing
• still no one pedal driving option - given Porsche this will never happen
• PCM still hangs or is slow right after startup with reboots in middle of usage still common - not unique to Taycan - this is a porsche fleet wide problem and VW also - the legacy car guys are "less good" at software.
• PCM is still complex - same as it ever was - but common across the line - this is Porsche's software for all vehicles and shared pros/cons equally
• EA still sucks - Ford and GM have basically capitulated on that front
• still a way way way better track car than _ANY_ Tesla - including plaid
• charge scheduling is identical across the line - no change
• dealer network still has fewer techs for EV's than gas cars, and sales people are still clueless about EV issues
• PMC+/PMCC are still being shipped and Porsche still doesn't admit there is a problem with the included charger

none of these observations would make me avoid purchase of a Taycan - it's just being a "great" EV is more than how bullet-proof your EV drive train is - Porsche's EV drive train is world class powerful, smooth, reliable, robust - no issues - but for me the "EV experience" is lacking due to the observations listed above

100% certain the Taycan is a better "car" than _ANY_ Tesla - but Tesla is better at being an EV car company than Porsche - Tesla still makes a crappy car vs. Porsche, but their EV'ness is way way better than Porsche.

 

[daveo4EV]

great car - mediocre EV experience…happening in real time right now - Porsche doesn't know what's it's doing with EV's…but their mechanical engineering is world class.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...harger-connect-grounding-error-message.16232/

 

[Replika]

Is the double-paned glass on the rear windows as well? Typically there is some variability among cars. My ICE car has it on all 4 windows and it makes cruising at 85 so enjoyable.

Regardless, do not skimp on glass in a car this expensive! The three Taycans I tested did not have it, and the road noise was a little too present for my taste.

 

[or1]

I'll politely stick by my "guns" for "mediocre EV on the basis of the following:

• lack of "tech"
• two speed transmission that is mostly pointless
• anemic range vs. competitive offerings - EV drive train efficiency is lacking
• launch control required to get max performance (unprepared my Taycan Turbo is slower than an AWD Model Y at a stop light) - up to any legal limit
  • on the freeway under "passing" scenairo's the Taycan has more head room than the Model Y - but that only shows up at speeds that will get you arrested anywhere other than Germany.
• lack of OTA updates
• lack of one peddle driving as an option
• software glitches
• horrible PCM user interface (not just Taycan true of all Porsche products given PCM is their "thing")
• terrible charging network
  • and really really long start times for fast charging sessions - why does my son's Model Y w/an adapter start it's charging session about 6x faster than my Taycan - even when using the Porsche app to start both sessions?
• lack of plug&charge in my 2020 Taycan (and even if it did have it the implementation only works for EA , not other networks).
• about the same stamina on track as my 2018 Model 3 Performance model (10 laps or less at Laguna Seca at full performance)
  • while stamina is the same as a 2018 Model 3 Performance handling, braking, confidence and composure go hands down to the Taycan vs. any Tesla offering - OMG this car is soooo good - hunting down 911 GT3's uphill out of turn 6 is pure joy…
• complex and indecipherable charge scheduling and target charge % (a key ownership experience for home charging)
  • lack of basic controls for EV charging
    • AMP control
    • "start" now function
  • lack of schedule based charging - start every day at 11 pm and charge to 85%
• basic lack of awarness of EV issues, solutions, and common pitfalls in the dealer and service network - EV's are still "foreign" to the ICE industry and receive 2nd class support and focus when you co-mingle them into the ICE service network (i.e. only 1 or 2 guys at the shop are "trained" to work the Taycan - longer cycle times for diagnostics, incorrect/false information regarding charging issues and solutions) - EV is not their focus and it shows
• PMC+/PMCC - I'll just leave this here with no further comment

as a "complete" EV platform the Taycan is lacking - but the mechanical engineering of the drive train is top notch - but as a total EV experience it lags more focused EV competitors.

the reliability of the drive train so far has been stellar - and it's a good drive train with few faults - but lacks any "push" of technology that sets it apart from competitive alternatives

Porsche makes a great car, and a mediocre EV but I understand others may disagree - having come from years of Tesla I was hoping Porsche would exceed "parity" - in my book they've barely matched my 2018 Model 3 Performance. Kudos for being a better mechanical platform than my 2014 Model S P85D (6 years later) - but the P85D trounces my Taycan at efficiency and range and over all 'EV' feature set.

on track my 2020 Taycan Turbo is LIGHT YEARS better than the Model S P85D…and handling, road noise, and other traditional car aspects the Taycan is way better than Tesla's offerings.

I appreciate the argumentation, but do not quite agree. Some of it may have to do with my being in Norway not the U.S. We have good charging opportunities here, CCS2 works well and Ionity has almost enough coverage for any tour. Porsche has sold lots of Taycans and the servicing side is mostly fine.

And although I think the operating concept (including one pedal driving) in my Model S worked well, I’m even more fond of the Porsche way now that I am used to it. I like more active driving, don’t mind at all that they haven’t used a lot of resources on autonomy. I do not put an equal sign between being an EV and autonomy. Autonomy will come sometime, but I expect Porsche to not be a pioneer there.

So no absolutely disrespect, just differences of opinion that can make discussion interesting and the automotive landscape more varied.

 

[tigerbalm]

Some of it may have to do with my being in Norway not the U.S.

Driving an EV in Norway, Germany, Netherlands and France is bliss. I haven't driven my Taycan in Spain yet – but the IONITY network build out there looks to be getting quiet comprehensive too.

 

[whitex]

I also personally wouldn’t punish any company or force them to spin-off their charging network because they had the foresight to invest billions of their own money (without government subsidy at the time) in infrastructure to help the adaption of EV’s, especially when they’ve opened up all their patents, designs and charger standards to any manufacturer to use all free of charge.

Ok, perhaps you believe Elon a little too much. The above is no more true that Elon's assertion that every Tesla with FSD computer, even used, will be worth $225K by end of 2021 (spoiler alert, I just priced my 2018 Model S, Tesla will not pay me even close to that price to trade it in, nor will anyone else), or that FSD will be capable of Summon from New York to Los Angeles not long after 2016, or that there will be a million robo-taxis on the road driving for Tesla Ride Sharing network by end of 2020, etc, etc. More specifically, Tesla got a bunch on government grants and subsidies since they started building the supercharging network. Besides the obvious $7,500 per car from US government, they got plenty of state subsidies too different per state) - Tesla actually charged $2,000-$2,500 for every car sold for access to the supercharger network by the way. Tesla also got grants for things such as the "battery swap stations", IIRC they built one, got ~$100M for it, shut it down and never talked about it again. They got subsidies from states for building factories and some for supercharger stations too. As for opening all their patents, design and charger standards, again not true - easy proof on that one, try to find a charging spec for superchargers, Tesla never released it - what they released was a physical connector spec, which would like if someone released the physical dimensions of USB connector, but kept the USB protocol a secret.

This is….WAS a huge competitive advantage for Tesla and many have argued helping other automakers by letting them use their infrastructure is a huge loss for Tesla, especially as the financial benefits for them are tiny in the scheme of things.

Not at all, first of all, by sharing the supercharger network they now qualify for $700M in government subsidies which clearly require that a charger network be usable my more than one manufacturer. Furthermore, this is my speculation only, this allows Tesla to potentially become the largest electrical energy reseller in North America. They have the chargers, the batteries (storage of energy is a big challenge), and even some solar production. IMO it is a very smart play to further Tesla's non-car goals (battery tech as storage for energy, i.e. outside of EV completely, is a big part of Elon's plans). Check out their Power Wall and Virtual Power Plants, very cool tech. If Elon pulls it off, there is really good money to be made there, recession proof too, people always need energy.

 

[CRAIG BROMLEY]

OK enough now please with the political rant, I could respond to most of what you say but it’s not the place and you seem in transmit mode anyway, have a good day.

 

[whitex]

OK enough now please with the political rant, I could respond to most of what you say but it’s not the place and you seem in transmit mode anyway, have a good day.

It's not political at all. Simple facts. I was very excited too when I read Elon announce that they are opening the charging standard, only to be disappointed by the fact that only the connector physical specs were released. I was genuinely interested in the Tesla spec (EV chariging is a side hobby of mine). My guess is most people never followed his link to realize that. No different than many strangers I've met over the last decade who told me how jealous they are that my Tesla will drive me home while I sleep on the back of it - those people simply relied of Elon's tweets for information, then assumed it's true.

 

[daveo4EV]

I appreciate the argumentation, but do not quite agree. Some of it may have to do with my being in Norway not the U.S. We have good charging opportunities here, CCS2 works well and Ionity has almost enough coverage for any tour. Porsche has sold lots of Taycans and the servicing side is mostly fine.

And although I think the operating concept (including one pedal driving) in my Model S worked well, I’m even more fond of the Porsche way now that I am used to it. I like more active driving, don’t mind at all that they haven’t used a lot of resources on autonomy. I do not put an equal sign between being an EV and autonomy. Autonomy will come sometime, but I expect Porsche to not be a pioneer there.

So no absolutely disrespect, just differences of opinion that can make discussion interesting and the automotive landscape more varied.

mutual respect - thanks for following up - I can see your perspective - when I was in europe with a rental Model 3 Aug. of 2021 EV charging was great...

love a nice chat!!!

 

[nethawk]

The UK dealer is already getting orders or preorders for the facelift? They gave you any timing?

Thanks!

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