Tesla fires entire Supercharger team. Elon Musk says Supercharger growth will continue however

[thecoloradokid]

Six pages on the Tesla supercharging network - I am not sure whether to laugh or cry. I feel bad for the Taycan owners who look to Tesla as some sort of charging savior since there is no news coming out of Musk on what will happen with agreements that extend charging access to NACS enabled V3 chargers via an adapter. I almost feel guilty that my 2nd vehicle is a Rivian and can access V3 or V4 Tesla superchargers via an adapter, and I could not care less.

Jealousy and obsessing about what other people have is not healthy. I am looking at you @Jonathan S. You seem to be a smart enough guy to know that trusting Elon Musk is a gamble.

Honestly, the worst part of all this for me is that Musk has delayed, or prevented, legions of Chevy Bolts or Hyundai Kanas from clogging up Tesla chargers with their 50kW charging speed vehicles. I was so looking forward to the tidal wave of complaints from Tesla owners about Chevy Bolts hogging chargers.

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[Jonathan S.]

[...] Jealousy and obsessing about what other people have is not healthy. I am looking at you @Jonathan S. You seem to be a smart enough guy to know that trusting Elon Musk is a gamble. [...]

Jealousy and obsessing about what ... Elon has on a personal level?
Definitely not!

Jealousy and obsessing about what other people have in access to all TSCN V3 and [pending] V4 chargers?
YES!
Based on my access to V3 chargers with the automatically deployed Magic Dock CCS1 adapters, yes, more of the same please, whether with the Tesla-supplied Magic Dock adapter of the BYOA version.

Already the Magic Docks in Enfield CT, Brewster NY, Foxborough MA, Lynnfield MA, and various locations in NJ have changed my calculus for EV vs ICE on road trips.
For two recent trips, my wife told me she was taking our A6ar and not her i4 given her prior experiences with EA and its equally miserable CCS1 competition here (except for the one time the BMW nav sent her to a strictly off-limits ABB R&D facility).
I urged her to consider Magic Docks instead, and sure enough, the BMW phone app charging session graph looked just like the theoretical charging curve.
With the Taycan, alas it maxes out in the 130s, but consistently so, with no waits for an available charger, and no broken chargers, i.e., totally unlike EA.

So yes, I trust the Magic Docks here for their reliability.
Trusting Elon for anything else, hmm....

And spending however many pages analyzing all of this, sure, I find the economics of this fascinating, especially given the intersection with public policy, so although I get paid to do all that in other contexts, I also sometimes like to do it in my spare time.

 

[thecoloradokid]

And spending however many pages analyzing all of this, sure, I find the economics of this fascinating, especially given the intersection with public policy, so although I get paid to do all that in other contexts, I also sometimes like to do it in my spare time.

I agree with you on this - the big picture moving forward should be interesting to follow over the next couple of years.

Now that Tesla has won the charging standard war, Musk seems to be comfortable letting other charging networks step into the breach he created by announcing that Tesla would grow the network at a much slower pace.

The question is, do other EV automakers still go down the road of converting to NACS, or do they reevaluate that decision? Do the European, Korean, and Chinese automakers create separate processes to build cars just for the North America market still, or do they stick with CCS for efficiency purposes? There is a lot of instability in the EV industry, so it will be an interesting couple of years to see how things shake out. Everything seemed to be coalescing around NACS, and then Musk dropped a turd in the punchbowl, so we shall see.

Also, what happens to the hundreds of charging locations Tesla was awarded via the NEVI process? I know in Colorado they were recently awarded two dozen new locations via the NEVI process, but what does the State of Colorado do now that no one is answering the phones at Tesla? Award them to the runner up? Do other charging networks have the necessary financial resources to take up the slack? It seems like a great opportunity for Electrify America, EVgo, and Chargepoint to pick up some locations, but do they have the appetite, and the finances, to do so?

 

[Jonathan S.]

All excellent questions -- I look forward to learning the answers over the coming years!

Question for you though: have you found a list of NEVI awards won by Tesla?
Since these are won on a state-by-state basis, perhaps no such spreadsheet/database exists for awards broken out by state and network?

This is the eventual $ split by state and year:
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/evs_5year_nevi_funding_by_state.cfm

The official national quarterly updates do not provide any sort of network breakout:
https://driveelectric.gov/news/nevi-update-q1

Back in September, WSJ reported $8.5m for Tesla:
https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/...-federal-money-for-charging-networks-85a058dd
.... but seems almost trivial, and is already perhaps outdated.

This firm has some interesting tallies:
https://evadoption.com
... but their more detailed work might be available only through the subscription service.

Meanwhile, courtesy of the WSJ, here's yet another distressing anecdote from the recent TSCN cuts:

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/...charging-and-people-are-freaking-out-ee8e490c

Adam Gordon, managing partner at New York City-based developer Wildflower, said the company was nearly at the finish line after seven or eight months of lease negotiations with Tesla for a Supercharger site in Queens. ​

​

Tuesday morning, Gordon had a text from his contact at Tesla, which said that the group working on the project had been laid off in a 4 a.m. email. He hasn’t heard from anyone from Tesla so far.​

​

“Our perspective is that this kind of behavior doesn’t leave us with a sense that we have a reliable counterparty no matter what they say,” Gordon added.​

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Jealousy and obsessing about what ...

And spending however many pages analyzing all of this, sure, I find the economics of this fascinating, especially given the intersection with public policy, so although I get paid to do all that in other contexts, I also sometimes like to do it in my spare time.

Having read quite a few of your posts, I think your focus on how EA was founded, and how the funds must be spent is blinding you a bit to the “business” or professional aspect of the company. It is meant to ease the adoption of VAG EVs, they did build a network instead of spending the cash on crystal-encrusted plug handles, they seem to have a pretty kick-ass customer support team _and_ the ability to do remote diagnostics and mitigation. There’s quite a bit of engineering behind that. There is no reason for EA not to consider/approach a path to business viability after the decree period expires.

I get that your local stations are suboptimally placed (and functioning); maybe consider that isn’t the norm, and it isn’t out of cynicism or incompetence.

 

[Jonathan S.]

If only the crystal-encrusted plug handles were color-matched to my custom Taycan fuse box cover.

Seriously though, I agree that VAG (and its 9% partner Siemens) will most likely consider/approach a path to business viability after the consent decree period expires at the end of 2026.
What that looks like though ... TBD!
Or might just sell off the stations piecemeal to other networks.
(TBD!)

Until then though, the overwhelming impression I get from personal experience in the Northeast, anecdotal evidence from the FB EA group, published articles, and public statements by CARB board members, is of a network owner/operator whose approach to maintenance and reliability is in line with a network that is a form of legal punishment rather than a willing business enterprise.

 

[snstevens]

Some more twists and turns at Tesla for those thinking Musk has finished doing damage to the company.

Elon Musk’s no.2 at Tesla goes back to China as the CEO isolates himself at the top

 

[Fish Fingers]

Things that I have noted about Musks behaviour lately. Just my 2p for what it's worth.......

1. He seems to mostly focus on one thing at a time. It was all Twitter/X, now it's switched back to Tesla (since Cybertruck) .
Imo there are too many major roles for one man (a dictator) to manage alone across so many companies. Has he become a victim of his own success/ambition and is drowning in managing it all?

2. The instantaneous, snap decisions are unusual. To have a team of 500 one day and then 0 the next day would suggest one of the decisions was wrong (hiring or firing) unless there has been an overnight change in circumstamces.
You would expect transitions to be more gradual as circumstances change.

3. As a major investor, I would be very worried about corporate governance and structure going forward.

 

[ben1]

Luckily the charging network is growing strongly in Europe. If one day, all the Tesla superchargers would close, it wouldn't be a disaster. Altough the supercharging network is the most reliable and has the most chargers per station, nowadays there are plenty of other chargers of other brands.
Especially Ionity and Fastned are reliable charging locations in (western-)Europe.

 

[Perry]

Luckily the charging network is growing strongly in Europe. If one day, all the Tesla superchargers would close, it wouldn't be a disaster. Altough the supercharging network is the most reliable and has the most chargers per station, nowadays there are plenty of other chargers of other brands.
Especially Ionity and Fastned are reliable charging locations in (western-)Europe.

My concern is that Tesla is needed to set the high standard that other brands aspire to. Without Superchargers as the golden standard, I fear the other brands will eventually grow complacent and settle that 6 chargers without nearby facilities and 60% uptime ought to be enough for anyone.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

My concern is that Tesla is needed to set the high standard that other brands aspire to. Without Superchargers as the golden standard, I fear the other brands will eventually grow complacent and settle that 6 chargers without nearby facilities and 60% uptime ought to be enough for anyone.

Any company that wishes to do well in a competitive market needs to have a customer obsession. Tesla does exhibit that trait, but I don’t know if “Tesla is needed”. The customers dictate the standard.

 

[Scandinavian]

Any company that wishes to do well in a competitive market needs to have a customer obsession. Tesla does exhibit that trait, but I don’t know if “Tesla is needed”. The customers dictate the standard.

Agree in part.
Customer dictate yes, but if there is no difference and no choice? You are stuck.

 

[Scandinavian]

My concern is that Tesla is needed to set the high standard that other brands aspire to. Without Superchargers as the golden standard, I fear the other brands will eventually grow complacent and settle that 6 chargers without nearby facilities and 60% uptime ought to be enough for anyone.

I think there are EU ambitions to set a standard of 99% availability. I believe Netherland has done so and the U.K. has that ambition. Two things EU seem to push is for payment by Credit card and the above availability standard!

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Agree in part.
Customer dictate yes, but if there is no difference and no choice? You are stuck.

Then EV sales will drop (hmm..), and customers will not return to the brand.

Tesla didn't build a charging network with 3 9’s of availability because they wanted to sell electricity $30 at a time.

 

[feye]

I do not know on what planet you reside, but clearly not in Europe, Planet Earth!

The Tesla SUC in most parts of France, Germany, Denmark, UK, Sweden, Norway that I have passed or visited have ben fairly busy...

Planet bavaria:

The top was empty like in the picture, the new chargers at the bottom where all full, with 2 cars waiting.

This is your reality check: Nobody cares about T junk anymore. People are fed up with the junk. I hardly ever see a T junk charging station, but when I see them, they are usually empty.

Also, don't you have a TÜV in France, where after 3 years for new cars you have to show up and have it checked if it is still safe to drive on roads? T junk is at the bottom of the list with all models behind Dacia.

You know, posts like this are really crazy. When I complained about the god awful junk my MS90D was (sold last year) all the fanboys going gaga, that the new Model 3 is much better. I said, no way, the whole factory is producing junk, no matter what model they push out the gate. The volume data of TÜV Germany proofs it.

So the question back to you: On what fanboy planet are you residing?

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