Tesla Model S - the car that started it all…

[daveo4EV]

most people trashing Tesla's "quality" do so from a very weak position of no personal experience - but rather parroting "what they've heard" - My 2 Model S's were not 'porsche quality' but they were vastly better than "most cars" and reliability was stellar - much better than my Taycan experience in terms of problems or issues…

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[69Mach390]

most people trashing Tesla's "quality" do so from a very weak position of no personal experience - but rather parroting "what they've heard" - My 2 Model S's were not 'porsche quality' but they were vastly better than "most cars" and reliability was stellar - much better than my Taycan experience in terms of problems or issues…

While that may be true, your personal experience with reliability doesn’t really matter when talking about the reliability of the entire brand for millions of cars. You are just 1 data point out of millions.

Tesla was at the very bottom of almost every JD Power 3 year dependability study for a very long time. In the last few years it has finally creeped up to “below average.”

During the same time period Porsche was almost always top 5.

That said, ever since 2020, Porsche has slid a bit overall (I’m looking at you Taycan! )

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

While that may be true, your personal experience with reliability doesn’t really matter when talking about the reliability of the entire brand for millions of cars. You are just 1 data point out of millions.

Tesla was at the very bottom of almost every JD Power 3 year dependability study for a very long time. In the last few years it has finally creeped up to “below average.”

During the same time period Porsche was almost always top 5.

That said, ever since 2020, Porsche has slid a bit overall (I’m looking at you Taycan! )

That may well be but WhiteX's experience tallies exactly with mine and very similar issues.

My Taycant has left me stranded twice in a year. The Tesla (8years ownership since new) never has.

yep my dash has just been out too to replace failed servos (5 of 8 were dead). This has been a standard Porsche problem for over 20 years. Never fixed it.

I would put Porsche perceived quality above Tesla. Reliability? Much worse.

 

[Zcd1]

most people trashing Tesla's "quality" do so from a very weak position of no personal experience - but rather parroting "what they've heard" - My 2 Model S's were not 'porsche quality' but they were vastly better than "most cars" and reliability was stellar - much better than my Taycan experience in terms of problems or issues…

We own 3 Teslas, with a combined well over 150,000 miles.

None has ever needed any service at all outside of regular maintenance…(brake fluid change on one)

 

[whitex]

While that may be true, your personal experience with reliability doesn’t really matter when talking about the reliability of the entire brand for millions of cars. You are just 1 data point out of millions.

Tesla was at the very bottom of almost every JD Power 3 year dependability study for a very long time. In the last few years it has finally creeped up to “below average.”

During the same time period Porsche was almost always top 5.

That said, ever since 2020, Porsche has slid a bit overall (I’m looking at you Taycan! )

Add me to that tally. Also, I owned my 4 Teslas between 2013 and 2023, two at a time. During that time I was active on Tesla forums and gotta tell you, nowhere near as many issues as discussed here. Of course it wasn't problem free, no car is, but definitely more issues discussed here, and what is even more telling, a lot of people end up experiencing a lot of the issues on the same Taycan. With Teslas, you might have heard about someone's battery needing replacement (very rare back then, not sure what it is now), or someone's bearings making noises needing replacement, or screen yellowing a bit, but it was almost never the same car or owner.

 

[69Mach390]

That may well be but WhiteX's experience tallies exactly with mine and very similar issues.

My Taycant has left me stranded twice in a year. The Tesla (8years ownership since new) never has.

yep my dash has just been out too to replace failed servos (5 of 8 were dead). This has been a standard Porsche problem for over 20 years. Never fixed it.

I would put Porsche perceived quality above Tesla. Reliability? Much worse.

Still two data points out of millions.

And you didn’t understand what I wrote. Porsche reliability is fantastic…… with the exception of the Taycan.
And if you read the dependability studies I referenced…… no brand is problem free on average. Even the most reliable brands (usually Lexus, Buick and Porsche at the top) have 110 to 170 problems per 100 vehicles in the first 3 years of ownership.

So for every person who has a Lexus that breaks 2 times, someone never had a single problem.
In 2019 Porsche was number 2, Tesla was almost last. 2024 Porsche slid a bit (I blame the Taycan) but still very high. Tesla still way worse.

 

[AutoX]

Still two data points out of millions.

And you didn’t understand what I wrote. Porsche reliability is fantastic…… with the exception of the Taycan.
And if you read the dependability studies I referenced…… no brand is problem free on average. Even the most reliable brands (usually Lexus, Buick and Porsche at the top) have 110 to 170 problems per 100 vehicles in the first 3 years of ownership.

So for every person who has a Lexus that breaks 2 times, someone never had a single problem.
In 2019 Porsche was number 2, Tesla was almost last. 2024 Porsche slid a bit (I blame the Taycan) but still very high. Tesla still way worse.

Take that study with a grain a salt. Does the study capture any visit to the dealership or does it only count major mechanical issues? There's a big difference between panel gaps and the red ring of death in the Taycan or HV battery issues in the MachE.

Mechanically, Tesla are very reliable, most "recalls" are addressed through OTA updates, and not mechanical in nature. There really are very low number of mechanical issues that plague the line up. Most complaints were related to creaks, rattles, and poor suspension which give the perception of poor quality. But that comes down to their initial design choice of favoring less weight vs more insulation and cost. Tesla also favored sporty suspension over comfort. They have greatly improved that in the latest model though.

I'm not going to convince Elon hater's that Tesla are good cars. Some people can't/won't make that distinction. They can't be objective.

 

[SoccerMan94043]

Tesla was at the very bottom of almost every JD Power 3 year dependability study for a very long time. In the last few years it has finally creeped up to “below average.”

Most of those issues were/are software issues that were fixed through over the air updates, didn't impact the ability to drive the car and didn't require a trip to the dealer.

It's a different story with fit and finish though (aparently improved now however):

 

[69Mach390]

Take that study with a grain a salt. Does the study capture any visit to the dealership or does it only count major mechanical issues? There's a big difference between panel gaps and the red ring of death in the Taycan or HV battery issues in the MachE.

Mechanically, Tesla are very reliable, most "recalls" are addressed through OTA updates, and not mechanical in nature. There really are very low number of mechanical issues that plague the line up. Most complaints were related to creaks, rattles, and poor suspension which give the perception of poor quality. But that comes down to their initial design choice of favoring less weight vs more insulation and cost. Tesla also favored sporty suspension over comfort. They have greatly improved that in the latest model though.

I'm not going to convince Elon hater's that Tesla are good cars. Some people can't/won't make that distinction. They can't be objective.

It’s a simple study of “problems.”

No, it doesn’t differentiate between what broke. But it is a level playing field for every manufacturer and has been done for decades.

The same brands tend to be at the top and the same at the bottom for quite a long time.

When they break things down further between models and drive type……. EVs have been considerably worse for years but are closing the gap.

But if your car is broken and requires a trip to the dealer to get fixed, I don’t care if it’s a simple software problem or a mechanical one. Broke is broke.

 

[69Mach390]

Most of those issues were/are software issues that were fixed through over the air updates, didn't impact the ability to drive the car and didn't require a trip to the dealer.

It's a different story with fit and finish though (aparently improved now however):

Yeah my Mach E (2021 first year) was absolutely plagued with software issues.

Only went to the dealership 3x in 4 years (two for recall), but the software bugs were very annoying.

There was a time where I literally had a new random bug every week.

Sure the car drove and never broke down, but I didn’t know when the screen would go black, door wouldn’t open, headlights wouldn’t turn off, radio wouldn’t respond, sensors would stop working etc etc.

By the end I had almost no bugs, but it was a frustrating ownership experience at first. Took dozens of updates and years to get right. I used to joke that it was a good thing it was pretty and drove well.

 

[AutoX]

It’s a simple study of “problems.”

No, it doesn’t differentiate between what broke. But it is a level playing field for every manufacturer and has been done for decades.

The same brands tend to be at the top and the same at the bottom for quite a long time.

When they break things down further between models and drive type……. EVs have been considerably worse for years but are closing the gap.

But if your car is broken and requires a trip to the dealer to get fixed, I don’t care if it’s a simple software problem or a mechanical one. Broke is broke.

For me, broke is not broke. When I bought my first Tesla Model Y, there were some small panel gaps that I was not happy with. So I took it to the dealer to get it fix. It was elective, I could of lived with it, the car functioned fine, operated as normal. On the other hand, my Mache got the dreaded HVBJB defect which incapacitated the car, requiring the dealer to remove the battery for repair. Both of these would be considered the same on the survey. Clearly it's not.

Here's another example. There was a Tesla recall (2.2 million )because they used a font that too small for the abs/brake warning. I would consider that problem/defect to be pretty minor, where as the battery recall of multiple EVs with LG battery requiring you to park outside and not charge your car to > than 80% to be pretty significant. Both of these would be considered defects, but they clearly are not equivalent.

 

[69Mach390]

For me, broke is not broke. When I bought my first Tesla Model Y, there were some small panel gaps that I was not happy with. So I took it to the dealer to get it fix. It was elective, I could of lived with it, the car functioned fine, operated as normal. On the other hand, my Mache got the dreaded HVBJB defect which incapacitated the car, requiring the dealer to remove the battery for repair. Both of these would be considered the same on the survey. Clearly it's not.

Here's another example. There was a Tesla recall (2.2 million )because they used a font that too small for the abs/brake warning. I would consider that problem/defect to be pretty minor, where as the battery recall of multiple EVs with LG battery requiring you to park outside and not charge your car to > than 80% to be pretty significant. Both of these would be considered defects, but they clearly are not equivalent.

For sure it’s different. But this discussion is pretty typical whenever reliability is brought up on car forums.

Someone posts data then people post their own personal experiences (good or bad).

But your personal experience doesn’t change the data.

FWIW, I agree that software “problems” can be less severe than mechanical ones.

But the reverse is true when an EV is dead on the road, the owner locked out and requires a flat tow for a simple 12V battery issue.

Either way, we can’t throw stones, both the Taycan and Teslas have below average reliability….. but they along with all EVs seem to be closing the gap and getting better.

I look forward to the day when EV drivers don’t have to be Beta testers.

 

[Zcd1]

Still two data points out of millions.

And you didn’t understand what I wrote. Porsche reliability is fantastic…… with the exception of the Taycan.
And if you read the dependability studies I referenced…… no brand is problem free on average. Even the most reliable brands (usually Lexus, Buick and Porsche at the top) have 110 to 170 problems per 100 vehicles in the first 3 years of ownership.

So for every person who has a Lexus that breaks 2 times, someone never had a single problem.
In 2019 Porsche was number 2, Tesla was almost last. 2024 Porsche slid a bit (I blame the Taycan) but still very high. Tesla still way worse.

You do understand that this “data” suggests that Porsches average 1.75 problems per vehicle while Tesla averages 2.52, right?

2.52 is definitely higher than 1.75, but “slightly less than 2” vs “slightly more than 2” is hardly a catastrophic/significant difference.

JD Power is to be respected (?) for discovering a way to monetize (and sensationalize) data like this, but understanding the true meaning behind the information is the key.

Their methods have NOT kept up with automotive technology, and to @AutoX’s point, JD Power treats an OTA update the same as an HV battery failure when it comes to “problems”. That is obviously the wrong way to treat those issues, but if they didn’t, their reports would be far less compelling as automotive flash points...and more importantly, far less profitable.

 

[69Mach390]

You do understand that this “data” suggests that Porsches average 1.75 problems per vehicle while Tesla averages 2.52, right?

2.52 is definitely higher than 1.75, but “slightly less than 2” vs “slightly more than 2” is hardly a catastrophic/significant difference.

JD Power is to be respected (?) for discovering a way to monetize (and sensationalize) data like this, but understanding the true meaning behind the information is the key.

Their methods have NOT kept up with automotive technology, and to @AutoX’s point, JD Power treats an OTA update the same as an HV battery failure when it comes to “problems”. That is obviously the wrong way to treat those issues, but if they didn’t, their reports would be far less compelling as automotive flash points...and more importantly, far less profitable.

That’s actually statistically significant, especially if you look at the averages.

Tesla has 44% more problems on average than Porsche. That gap was significantly higher a few years ago as well.

Either way, it is what it is. And Tesla has consistently been below average going all the way back to the beginning of Tesla.

They are getting better for sure, but reliability is in the “con” category for Tesla still. Just as it is for the Taycan.

I do find it interesting how no matter what the data says, people defend Tesla and criticize the Taycan….. even on a Taycan forum.

 

[babylou66]

In regards to reliability "Porsche" data is not "Taycan" data. Who here is willing to argue the Taycan is not sucking hind tit in the Porsche lineup?

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