Why does manual pre-conditioning not use shore power?

[whitex]

Not if my cheap charge period runs until 5.30am and I want to leave at 8am

Lol, I just edited to add that caveat, then I saw your reply. You are correct, you cannot preheat hours ahead of time, though if it's really cold, perhaps set a timer for 5:20am, the car will preheat on cheap power, then 2.5hrs late you will use less battery to preheat again as hopefully the car retained some hear from 2.5hrs earlier.

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[irrelevant]

Seems a lot of effort to save a few pennies, with a car that costs tens of thousands of dollars in depreciation (feel free to convert to appropriate metric units). ?

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

When the car is plugged into an EVSE, and I select manual pre-heat, the car will draw power from the HV battery. When I create a timer to get the car ready in 5 minutes, the car will use shore power (power from EVSE, not battery). Using the battery puts unnecessary wear on the battery (each battery is rated in number of complete charge-discharge cycles, though recently there have been studies that shallow charging actually wears the battery less as it caused less cracking in the lithium crystal structures due to less total expansion during charge-discharge cycles).

Anyone know why Porsche will not use shore power when manually pre-conditioning, but will use it when a time is set to do the same?

Just found this out this morning when I set the car to defrost and it consumed 20 miles of range even though it was plugged in.

Another spectacular self-own by PAG.

 

[whitex]

Just found this out this morning when I set the car to defrost and it consumed 20 miles of range even though it was plugged in.

Another spectacular self-own by PAG.

Nobody thinks of the user experience big picture. I suspect two different teams implemented app pre-heat vs. timer preheat, and without a high level requirements of how things should work, each engineer implemented whatever they thought was best, or perhaps the app preheat implementer didn't even think that far - the requirement said to turn on heating, so they did, without thinking at all where the energy is going to come from. The engineer who implemented timer function had to think about battery level, since timer also has a preset SoC target, so draining the battery would have likely come up in design and maybe testing. Or maybe the timer implementer was just a better engineer than the heater app API implementer, or maybe the app API team's request to trigger heat from shore power if plugged-in was quoted at some amount of money that exceeded the contractor budget, who knows.

I miss Steve Jobs and his approach to product building.

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

Nobody thinks of the user experience big picture. I suspect two different teams implemented app pre-heat vs. timer preheat, and without a high level requirements of how things should work, each engineer implemented whatever they thought was best, or perhaps the app preheat implementer didn't even think that far - the requirement said to turn on heating, so they did, without thinking at all where the energy is going to come from. The engineer who implemented timer function had to think about battery level, since timer also has a preset SoC target, so draining the battery would have likely come up in design and maybe testing. Or maybe the timer implementer was just a better engineer than the heater app API implementer, or maybe the app API team's request to trigger heat from shore power if plugged-in was quoted at some amount of money that exceeded the contractor budget, who knows.

I miss Steve Jobs and his approach to product building.

Porsche clearly do not. I used to live with my dev cars. That was all fed back into the requisite parts of the business.

Porsche really are pretty woeful.

 

[chun]

Nobody thinks of the user experience big picture. I suspect two different teams implemented app pre-heat vs. timer preheat, and without a high level requirements of how things should work, each engineer implemented whatever they thought was best, or perhaps the app preheat implementer didn't even think that far - the requirement said to turn on heating, so they did, without thinking at all where the energy is going to come from. The engineer who implemented timer function had to think about battery level, since timer also has a preset SoC target, so draining the battery would have likely come up in design and maybe testing. Or maybe the timer implementer was just a better engineer than the heater app API implementer, or maybe the app API team's request to trigger heat from shore power if plugged-in was quoted at some amount of money that exceeded the contractor budget, who knows.

I miss Steve Jobs and his approach to product building.

The app is done by "porsche", under CARIAD. As in, whenever they aren't working on bullshit for skoda/vw/audi/lamburghini etc, they do some spare change software engineering for porsche also
So is the software in the car.
And since every brand wants their own flavor and features, nothing is developed properly

It's all 1 big clusterfuck made from parts

 

[whitex]

The app is done by "porsche", under CARIAD. As in, whenever they aren't working on bullshit for skoda/vw/audi/lamburghini etc, they do some spare change software engineering for porsche also
So is the software in the car.
And since every brand wants their own flavor and features, nothing is developed properly

It's all 1 big clusterfuck made from parts

Running heater from shore power when available (and automatic fallback to battery if unplugged, which is why thins function should not run in the cloud or on the phone) should be code in the car, which phone app triggers via a TurnOnPreconditioning() API.

 

[SoccerMan94043]

The app is done by "porsche", under CARIAD. As in, whenever they aren't working on bullshit for skoda/vw/audi/lamburghini etc, they do some spare change software engineering for porsche also
So is the software in the car.
And since every brand wants their own flavor and features, nothing is developed properly

It's all 1 big clusterfuck made from parts

Here is some more detailed information on the challenges CARIAD has had:

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

Oh absolutely, it's a complete Horlicks. How not to do automotive software.

 

[Tooney]

Oh absolutely, it's a complete Horlicks. How not to do automotive software.

Looks up information online about definition and derivation of "it's a complete Horlicks".
Interesting.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

You don’t always want to pre heat from shore power. Might be more expensive depending on your electric tariff and you might not need the lost range that day

 

[whitex]

You don’t always want to pre heat from shore power. Might be more expensive depending on your electric tariff and you might not need the lost range that day

Good point, but is solvable via letting the car know when you want it to charge (since it is the same problem of when you want to your car charging). Tesla solved this long ago, it's not rocket science. If the car is not supposed to charge, it will not use shore power for preconditioning, unless you override.

 

[CrazyINP]

Just needed a bit more data, tested that case on my BMW, I did set pre-conditioning (usually in the morning before work as the car sleeps outside) and conditioning on demand from the app. Car is connected to Level 2 charger. Most of the time car battery was fully charged and in both cases the car pulled power from the grid. Planning to do that with Taycan, I rarely charge it at home as usually charge it at work.

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

You don’t always want to pre heat from shore power. Might be more expensive depending on your electric tariff and you might not need the lost range that day

If I'm preheating a car with already rubbish range, I don't want to throw range away when I'm plugged into the house.

Any charging away from home is much more expensive than home charging at *any* time of day.

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

Just needed a bit more data, tested that case on my BMW, I did set pre-conditioning (usually in the morning before work as the car sleeps outside) and conditioning on demand from the app. Car is connected to Level 2 charger. Most of the time car battery was fully charged and in both cases the car pulled power from the grid. Planning to do that with Taycan, I rarely charge it at home as usually charge it at work.

Tested it too:

preheat to schedule - uses shore power (even if only 5 minutes in future).

Preheat on demand - uses battery even if charger connected.

so you can make it use mains power, just not conveniently.

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