Yet another electrical system error - ARB6 software in action?

[chun]

It costs around 12.000 DKK pr year ( a bit cheaper if you buy 3 years at a time). Car must be serviced at Porsche. Cars that have not been serviced at the dealership can be enrolled by paying for a full check before purchasing the warranty.

In fact you can extend it until the car have driven 200kkm or is 15 years old. Meaning you can actually extend it until the day it reaches this so in theory you can extend it when the car has done 199km (only for one year though).

This is all over the world for Porsche. And if not, certainly in EU, NA & Switzerland.

You do know it does not include the battery, right? Battery is insured until 8 years / 160.000 km, and can't be extended. Not even a brand new full battery replacement, with one from a j1.2, will extend that warranty by even 1 day

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[D00notD00d]

Thoughts from the fallout from operation of the monitoring software.

- The software imposes an 80% charge limit, then 50% if not fixed within 180 days.
From submissions to safety regulators, we understand that the fire risk likelihood is greater when charging above 80%, moreso with rapid charging.
Based upon info from Porsche, Regulators were content that cars were safe to drive when a SOC of 80% or lower was imposed by drivers. Now that’s automated, why are cars being taken off road, rather than allowing use until replacement modules become available?

- Dealers will charge Porsche for storage and loan cars. Maybe LG eventually picks up some of the tab. There’s an incentive for dealers to take cars off road, plus some have significant investment in HVB resources to recoup.

- The monitoring software is a solution to the safety risk, to appease regulators. It isn’t a solution to the HVB production defect “a torn anode tab, a folded cathode tab, a peeled-off cathode or a double production topic pouch crack) Over the service life of the vehicle, these issues, when combined, can increase the risk of fire.”

- What is the definition of HVB ‘service life’? The longevity of Tesla batteries sets the manufacturing precedent. As the manufacturing defect is latent, it will continue to surface past the 8 year battery warranty. The only true solution is an upgrade to j1.2 modules.

- J1.1 battery modules are no longer produced and it is probable that all stock has been consume. Are 2nd hand J1.1 or new J1.2 modules being used? If the latter, supply should be a lesser problem? A demand peak should have been anticipated.

 

[ovonrein]

I see. I misunderstood you. You are saying that I can extend my general warranty (every couple of years) until the car is 15 years old. Yes, that extends the battery warranty beyond 8 years, too.

You do know it does not include the battery, right?

I signed such a policy 3 days ago. It includes the battery.

 

[ovonrein]

The difference is that LG has identified that each of those cells have a non zero chance of being broken since day 1

Perhaps. And perhaps I have LG cells - I have no idea.

The question for Porsche is "What did we buy from LG?" A battery that's meant to be flawless (by Chun's standards)? A battery that's free of faults according to German law (2 years)? A battery that's free of faults according to Korean law (dunno)? When they find the answer to that question, they may know their B2B position vs LG.

As concerns us, the question then becomes "What did Porsche represent when they sold the Taycan to us?" You cannot refer to Tesla in law. (There are also better and worse Teslas). You can only refer to Tesla in an effort to shame Porsche. Otherwise, your recourse is limited to the law covering B2C in the country of purchase.

Nissan addressed the gap between the law and the shame by offering people whose battery died unexpectedly early (relative to Chun's expectation) a discounted replacement pack.

Seems reasonable to me. Good luck with your class action.

 

[ovonrein]

Dealers will charge Porsche for storage and loan cars.

True. And that's what bothered me about the OP. The "generosity" of the dealer concerned in loaning out that Macan while the perfectly drivable Taycan sits in his yard increases the cost of repairs (and hence future new Porsches) to us all. Every company must make a profit, at the end of the day. No Taycan owner profits from Porsche going bust.

 

[chun]

I see. I misunderstood you. You are saying that I can extend my general warranty (every couple of years) until the car is 15 years old. Yes, that extends the battery warranty beyond 8 years, too.

I signed such a policy 3 days ago. It includes the battery.

I have also signed one recently. And have also called porsche central, in Stuttgart. Porsche does not extend the warranty of the HV battery on any continent or country. If any such policy was signed, it is at the cost of the specific dealership.

 

[ovonrein]

Well, that would make for an interesting conversation because the warranty I signed could not be clearer

 

[Montecristo]

Bueno, eso sería una conversación interesante porque la garantía que firmé no podría ser más clara.

[/CITA]


Otra garantía aprobada que cubre la batería de alto voltaje.

 

[Leccy61]

Well, that would make for an interesting conversation because the warranty I signed could not be clearer

I also have a UK sourced approved warranty and agree that it couldn’t be clearer that high-voltage battery is covered against manufacturing defects.

However the “Ageing and wear and tear items” list includes “Batteries, inc HV batteries” and along with the usual items, if they fail due to wear and tear they are not covered.

If Porsche is judge and jury on whether an HV battery module failure is due to a manufacturing defect or ageing/wear & tear, I’m not seeing how an approved warranty can be relied upon beyond the 8 year battery warranty.

 

[ovonrein]

Yes, there are contradictions (also on the suspension) between "covered" and "wear& tear". I quoted the example of Nissan. I could also quote the example of BMW and their notorious N47 engine. Basically, when your HVB fails after 8 years plus 1 day, they will likely sell you a new one at very heavily discounted prices. But what does failure even mean? When a cell fails, they will probably still repair it under this warranty. But when the entire pack's range degrades to no more than 100 miles after 15 years, I think you are on thinner ice.

The expectation that came across in earlier posts that somehow Porsche should be liable when the battery does not last forever is unreasonable. These kind of batteries are known to suffer wear over time. Total collapse is the normal way these cells die when their days are up.

I’m not seeing how an approved warranty can be relied upon beyond the 8 year battery warranty.

Au contraire. I noticed this from the corner of my eye. That warranty is "approved" which is completely different from the original Porsche warranty. It is underwritten by some insurance company, not Porsche. That is, any claim (from dealer for compensation of costs associated with repairs under the warranty) don't hit Porsche - they hit the insurer. And it genuinely seems that our insurer provides coverage for the HVB.

 

[chun]

I also have a UK sourced approved warranty and agree that it couldn’t be clearer that high-voltage battery is covered against manufacturing defects.

However the “Ageing and wear and tear items” list includes “Batteries, inc HV batteries” and along with the usual items, if they fail due to wear and tear they are not covered.

If Porsche is judge and jury on whether an HV battery module failure is due to a manufacturing defect or ageing/wear & tear, I’m not seeing how an approved warranty can be relied upon beyond the 8 year battery warranty.

The B1D9EF6 error - that this thread is about, is a "cell module EF6, ageing detected" error, which would fall under the ageing/wear & tear category - which is not covered by warranty, as mentioned in the TSB of the error also.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2025/MC-11024128-0001.pdf

It also quite clearly describes how this is specifically the solution of ARB6/7 and within expectations; ARB6/7 which are both hardware issue recalls.

I'm not sure where all the ass kissing of Porsche attitude comes from in this thread, and why anybody would think that them disguising manufacturing defects as ageing is ok, when it's borderline illegal.

Or why anybody would think anything short of a full repair/replacement under warranty, including a discounted sell, is acceptable, in the conditions of a manufacturing defect.

When I buy an iPhone, and instead of green it shows pink, I wouldn't find it acceptable that Apple goes: "Ah, the phone is 2 days old, too old for the color green, but hey, you can buy a brand new one for 30% off".

We are seeing the hints 2 years before any car is even 8 years old, and people still chooose to believe that "good ol' porsche" that lost half of it's value and has -6% profits year over year would do them good.

The battery doesn't need to last forever, however if it's broken from day one in 2020, and I receive the error in 2028+1day that the battery is aged, because of that manufacturing defect from 2020, I fully expect it to be replaced under warranty, and not on my dime, because it's a manufacturing defect.

 

[ovonrein]

I wouldn't find it acceptable that Apple goes: "Ah, the phone is 2 days old, too old for the color green, but hey, you can buy a brand new one for 30% off".

And that's exactly what happened. Not that I am aware that Apple offered a discount.

The battery doesn't need to last forever, however if it's broken from day one in 2020, and I receive the error in 2028+1day...

...it clearly wasn't broken from day one. But I am happy for you to have that fight. Your money on lawyers, not mine. In the end, your lawyers will advise to settle. And the settlement will be something like a new battery -30%.

This is all hypothetical. Your battery is most unlikely to fail on 2028+1day.

 

[chun]

And that's exactly what happened. Not that I am aware that Apple offered a discount.

So because it has happened before, we should excuse it again?

Great mentality you got going on there.

Insane whataboutism .

You’d think people capable of affording a porsche wouldn’t be so into kissing ass, but I guess there’s an exception everywhere.

 

[ovonrein]

I am intensely relaxed. I have 33 modules showing voltages within 0.1V of one another. My 4 year old pack is fine. Might even last more than 8 years - I live in a temperate climate. If not, I jump off that bridge when I get there. You do you.

 

[gtm]

I am intensely relaxed. I have 33 modules showing voltages within 0.1V of one another. My 4 year old pack is fine. Might even last more than 8 years - I live in a temperate climate. If not, I jump off that bridge when I get there. You do you.

I hope your figure was a typo. Multiple postings of the software readout from the @ct14garage software shows a good battery with module level differences of 0.010 to 0.030 volts. Are you off a decimal point?

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