starting to get pretty fucked off about software.

[Murph7355]

There are parts I agree with in the above, and parts less so.

YouTube - I think this is only available on the J1.2 passenger screen, which has the film that stops you as the driver watching it, when on the move? The rational being conforming to safety requirements?

I also don't think the J1.1 can connect to WiFi hotspots, making streaming services usable? I'd assumed that was a h/w change.

Plug&Charge isn't something I've used. Installing certs will be something beyond 95% of owners I suspect. I've never found tapping my card against the card reader to be an issue...but them I was a late adopter of contactless generally and still think it's misguided from a security perspective.

I do agree that where things are not hardware limited on "usability" functions like PCM, Porsche should offer them for free. No owner will upgrade the whole car just for these things IMO, so all they're doing is alienating current owners.

That said... Chun - you mention Volvo. I have a 2024 XC90 and Volvo very much do not keep software "updated". Their software, as they transitioned from homebrew Sensus to Google, is utter shite (eg no inbuilt music player). And there is no word whatsoever that they will ever remedy this. I doubt they will. All car companies have issues with software. It will take a decade at least for that to change properly.

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[whitex]

Because that’s what Porsche promised me when I ordered my J1.1 Taycan Turbo. Updates and new features were a major concern for me as I new how fast EV technology progresses.

I was assured that this would not be a problem, yet here we are.

I think some dealer lied to you, or you confused them with Tesla. Do you happen to have anything in writing (or a copy of an add, similar to Tesla's)?

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

I think some dealer lied to you, or you confused them with Tesla. Do you happen to have anything in writing (or a copy of an add, similar to Tesla's)?

There's literally a screen shot from the Porsche app upthread..... ?

 

[ct4s]

With you on most issues re software.
It's generally ok but not much is great and many aspects are very poor in UX and UI. Such as much of the app, can't show Google Maps on the main drivers display (my wife's Kia can and on the HUD too!).

I read - not sure if it was Taycan specific or if I'm not remembering correctly - but most cars use tens of modules from 3rd parties, each running their own firmware.
So, trying to get a legacy auto maker to deliver effective and comprehensive upgrades is unlikely to happen.

Tesla and a few others take a different - and logical - approach and own the modules, or at least have access to the firmware spec / design / code.
I agree with this approach.
Hopefully, it's what Rivan may be able to help VAG with over time. But the Chinese onslaught and speed may mean it's too little too late.
Hope not.

 

[whitex]

Again, other manufacturers do it. Porsche is very free to not do it, and proceed to lose customers... as they are in pretty much every market

Ok, so don't buy a car from manufacturer who is not offering what others in the market deliver. Don't buy one and then get all bent out of shape. You knew exactly what you were getting into.

It's especially bad, since the hardware is the same.

It's not. The passenger screen which the OP wants to play YouTube on is different hardware on J1.2 with controllable viewing angle which the driver is not supposed to be able to view while driving

People learned to expect on a 250.000-300.000 chf car at least as much software support as a 250chf android phone made by a chinese company, because, again, that's what everyone delivers. My coffee machine got more useful updates than my taycan.

Again, then buy the Android phone, the coffee machine, and a Tesla, or BYD, or any other car that offers what you want. Vote with your wallet.

There's even regulations in place for some products, like smartphones, that relay on software:
And now they are discussing chaging those numbers to 5 and 7 years; and for cars to have security updates at a minimum once every 3 years.

The regulations will catch up soon, for EVs also. Will porsche be able to deliver?

Those regulations only apply to security updates, which Porsche is providing. Playing YouTube on passenger screen is not considered security update. Even loading third party certs for plug-and-charge does not qualify, unless it was already present in J1.1 but had a security hole.

So why would people not expect new features on older models? PHones do it, tablets do it, fridges do it, coffee machines do it, blenders do it, vacuums do it, cameras do it, everything run by software does it... unless it has a porsche logo on it.

Again, vote with your wallet, only buy products which do it. Personally, having been a Tesla customer for over a decade and 4 Model S'es, there are things I hate about bringing latest software to older cars.

1. Not all features will work, because hardware is missing.
2. The whole UI becomes slower and slower, some features become completely useless (e.g. web browser in two oldest Model S'es went from perfectly functional, to unable to even render release notes unless I hard reset the car and used the browser shortly after).
3. Not all changes are welcome, for example the very usable UX on the original Model S, with clear buttons near the driver's line of sight, at one point changed to tiny monochrome buttons near the floor, along with ability to show reverse camera on screen while driving disappearing (together with multi-tasking), etc - no way to opt out of this major change, because it was required to get security updates (old software no longer getting security updates). They reverted back to colored icons later, but by then the software was designed for landscape screens, so on portrait orientation old cars it was even less optimized for usability.
4. I received two dangerous OTA updates over the decade, one nearly caused my car to crash on a highway (Tesla fixed it in 2 days, but I happen to be driving during those 2 days), and another one actually caused physical damage to the car (again, fixed within a week, but too late for us, Tesla didn't cover the damage either).
5. Last but not least, Tesla OTA allows it to sell incomplete features - full self driving is a big example, but it just draws attention from smaller things, like my 2016 Model S didn't even have automatic headlights or wipers for nearly a year after delivery. Of course, no 2016 cars are able even today to drive your kids to school, or drive for Tesla Ride Sharing Network making you money when you're not using it, as advertised back in 2016.

Since we are not talking only about cars, I go out of my way to buy finished, non-cloud connected hardware, like my dishwasher (from a German manufacturer) costed significantly more to offer a non-connected version which had all the options available from a local control panel instead of having to use a phone app and their cloud (a cloud is just someone else's computer, leaving you at the mercy of them maintaining it or even keeping it working in the first place). There are products which benefit from the cloud, but there are others (like a toaster or dishwasher) which simply don't need it.

 

[chun]

I think some dealer lied to you, or you confused them with Tesla. Do you happen to have anything in writing (or a copy of an add, similar to Tesla's)?

From 2019:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/dam/jc...:text=Thanks to Over,for a specific period of

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/202...o online, over,added as further FoD functions

And here, their ask page: https://ask.porsche.com/us/en-US/over-the-air-software-updates/

No dealers said no lie

 

[chun]

Ok, so don't buy a car from manufacturer who is not offering what others in the market deliver. Don't buy one and then get all bent out of shape. You knew exactly what you were getting into.

It's not. The passenger screen which the OP wants to play YouTube on is different hardware on J1.2 with controllable viewing angle which the driver is not supposed to be able to view while driving

Again, then buy the Android phone, the coffee machine, and a Tesla, or BYD, or any other car that offers what you want. Vote with your wallet.

Those regulations only apply to security updates, which Porsche is providing. Playing YouTube on passenger screen is not considered security update. Even loading third party certs for plug-and-charge does not qualify, unless it was already present in J1.1 but had a security hole.

Again, vote with your wallet, only buy products which do it. Personally, having been a Tesla customer for over a decade and 4 Model S'es, there are things I hate about bringing latest software to older cars. For one, not all features will work, because hardware is missing. Two, the whole UI becomes slower and slower, some features become completely useless (e.g. web browser in two oldest Model S'es went from perfectly functional, to unable to even render release notes unless I hard reset the car and used the browser shortly after). Three, not all changes are welcome, for example the very usable UX on the original Model S, with clear buttons near the driver's line of sight, at one point changed to tiny monochrome buttons near the floor, along with ability to show reverse camera on screen while driving disappearing (together with multi-tasking), etc - no way to opt out of this major change, because it was required to get security updates (old software no longer getting security updates). They reverted back to colored icons later, but by then the software was designed for landscape screens, so on portrait orientation old cars it was even less optimized for usability. Four, I received two dangerous OTA updates over the decade, one nearly caused my car to crash on a highway (Tesla fixed it in 2 days, but I happen to be driving during those 2 days), and another one actually caused physical damage to the car (again, fixed within a week, but too late for us, Tesla didn't cover the damage either). Last but not least, Tesla OTA allows it to sell incomplete features - full self driving is a big example, but it just draws attention from smaller things, like my 2016 Model S didn't even have automatic headlights or wipers for nearly a year after delivery. Of course, no 2016 cars are able even today to drive your kids to school, or drive for Tesla Ride Sharing Network making you money when you're not using it, as advertised back in 2016.

Since we are not talking only about cars, I go out of my way to buy finished, non-cloud connected hardware, like my dishwasher (from a German manufacturer) costed significantly more to offer a non-connected version which had all the options available from a local control panel instead of having to use a phone app and their cloud (a cloud is just someone else's computer, leaving you at the mercy of them maintaining it or even keeping it working in the first place). There are products which benefit from the cloud, but there are others (like a toaster or dishwasher) which simply don't need it.

I bought a taycan that claimed OTA software updates As advertised.

I didn't buy a Dacia.

Maybe focus on reading before answering in walls of text. No, phones are not demanded to offer just security updates by regulations, currently by regulations 3 years of software (OS) updates for phones, tablets and other common software centric devices is mandated in europe

You can go out of your way to do whatever the fk you want and buy what you want, meanwhile we bought a car that is supposed to offer OTA updates. And we are expecting them.

So i did vote with my wallet. I attended the announcment of the taycan in switzerland, where they clearly advertised the OTA capabilities of the car And I bought that.

And again, people ARE voting with their wallets. Porsche is losing marketshare in basically every market IT's already happening. Should we not bring it up, so porsche understands what the problem is?

If you have nothing to say beside: "OTA is an illusion", don't post bro. Nobody is asking you to. The app, the support page, the porsche call center, the advertisment pamflet from 2019, the power point from 2019, all of these say that OTA is a thing. But the updates never come, despite OTA being a thing and the updates being avaliable

 

[whitex]

There's literally a screen shot from the Porsche app upthread..... ?

That screenshot says the car’s software will be up to date, not that the car will get new features. If you have an old iPad for example, you will stay up to date for whatever version is the latest supported on that hardware, not that you will always get latest features or even latest iOS (with features unsupported on your hardware turned off).

 

[Rik_CT4s]

I requested my Porsche dealership last week to update my J1.1 PCM to version .4360
My request was denied, as Porsche will not authorize the update on J1.1

Yes,
for road-trips this update would have been very useful to me.
No,
it is not pissing me off, as I knew from the beginning, going from Tesla to Porsche will put me in a whole different hardware AND software world.

One is very positive, one is very negative, but I decided, the positive one is way more important to me.

Same here. Today had my 60k km service done. 4.xx denied. They put the 3885 on, following up on the 3882 that was my current until yesterday. Minor issue with the parking break found, solved...and opted for cleaning of fans and some other minor stuff. Down 1100€ and good to go another 30k km...hopefully by then some software love?

 

[Jasper4S]

Let’s not forget: we have received updates — including uPdate and the 5–10 OTAs that were rolled out. I fully agree with everyone that the software is a mess, but let’s be real — Porsche never said we’d never get updates again.

Also, keeping the system up to date is something different from adding new features. I want new features too, but I’ve already accepted that they’re probably not coming. OTAs are definitely not over — just look at 3885, which was still released in late 2024.

If you’re hoping for frequent new features, Porsche — or really any German brand — is probably not the right choice. And if updates are your top priority, go for a Chinese EV, like Chun suggests in every thread. Just don’t complain later about driving dynamics or excellent service.

 

[whitex]

I bought a taycan that claimed OTA software updates As advertised.

It gets OTA updates, as of earlier this year even more substantial an just apps. As advertised. Nowhere was it advertised that all new features of future models will be OTA'ed into older cars.

Maybe focus on reading before answering in walls of text. No, phones are not demanded to offer just security updates by regulations, currently by regulations 3 years of software (OS) updates for phones, tablets and other common software centric devices is mandated in europe

What has been proposed (per your own post) is security updates and OS updates (OS is Operating System, so think kernel and its APIs, not apps like YouTube player or even the main UI). Porsche is keeping that up to date on J1.1 cars.

If you have nothing to say beside: "OTA is an illusion", don't post bro. Nobody is asking you to. The app, the support page, the porsche call center, the advertisment pamflet from 2019, the power point from 2019, all of these say that OTA is a thing. But the updates never come, despite OTA being a thing and the updates being avaliable

I never claimed "OTA is an illusion". Not sure what you read that lead you think this way.

OTA came really late and definitely lower scope than originally planned. However, Porsche is keeping their cars up-to-date via dealer recalls (and lately first non-app OTA for the battery recalls).

The big disconnect is that you think "up-to-date" means all latest features supported. Up to date means running latest version of software supported on particular hardware. I have a Windows 10 machine which is kept up to date by Microsoft, but will not allow me to install Windows 11 for example.

 

[whitex]

My J1.1 has the EXACT same hardware of a J1.2.

If you have the passenger screen, right there is the difference which will prevent you from viewing YouTube on passenger screen while driving. We also know J1.2 batteries are different, as are motors/inverters, active-ride vs. PDCC, etc. Plenty of differences between J1.1 and J1.2 hardware. So no, not EXACT same hardware.

 

[Jasper4S]

I think @whitex and I have the same POV. OTA is not about adding new features. It is about patching SW without having to visit the service center

 

[chun]

What has been proposed (per your own post) is security updates and OS updates (OS is Operating System, so think kernel and its APIs, not apps like YouTube player or even the main UI). Porsche is keeping that up to date on J1.1 cars.

In my PIWIS, right in front of my face, the latest OS for j1.1 is K4360; not K3885.

But ok You do you.

I never asked for youtube. But 4360 brings improved dash displays, improved timer and charging limit, color wheel instead of solid color choice for leds, and many bug fixes; plus performance improvements.

And that is an OS update, not a new feature.

You are just pedantic using some useless example. But as you yourself said, next time, I won\t choose a shit german car; I will choose a chinese one, which apparently has good enough driving dynamics to beat porsche on the nurburing and to have software updates, all for 1/4 of the price.

 

[chun]

EXACT same hardware.

The update being discussed is about PCM, not the app store
The PCM of j1.2 is EXACT same hardware as j1.1

All your pedantic arguments tied to one pedantic example, to disregard concerns over lack of updates in general.

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