Class action filed Sept 25 against Porsche

[Dee]

Question, if the 11kw OBC is so efficient why would Porsche bother to develop/build and offer a 22kw OBC.

It's twice as fast as an 11 kW charger.
That's all.
If you don't understand my explanation I don't know what will.

Your comments seem to suggest the 22kw OBC has no significant benefits?

It's twice as fast.

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[csm7djs]

A 22kW AC charger offers a faster, but not as fast, charge as a DC charger by converting power in your EV, making it ideal for home or destination charging, while a DC charger delivers power directly to the battery for extremely rapid charging, best for long-distance travel and quick top-ups.

The AC charger's speed is limited by the EV's onboard charger, whereas the DC charger's speed is limited by the charger's capacity and the vehicle's maximum charging rate

The DC chargers at the fast charging stations have that double plug type

Hope that helps

 

[StephNL]

So in EU, Porsche is:
- reimbursing the 22kW option price
- do a “commercial gesture” on top.
(Several cases on French Taycan Facebook group)

If you can prove that 22kW was a deciding factor (aka: you are using it daily to charge at work and 11kW would not allow you to recharge enough) then you have a (court) case for a buy back (or other settlement).

Hope this help

 

[Gru]

No one needs a 22 kW OBC anyway.

fast conclusion…. we all have different use, needs.

I only charge at work, 22kW. done in 2 or 3 hrs (or less) and then i can free the charger for someone else or use the car to go to a meeting and back. It would be totally different if I needed 4 to 6 hrs .

 

[StephNL]

A 22kW AC charger offers a faster, but not as fast, charge as a DC charger by converting power in your EV, making it ideal for home or destination charging, while a DC charger delivers power directly to the battery for extremely rapid charging, best for long-distance travel and quick top-ups.

The AC charger's speed is limited by the EV's onboard charger, whereas the DC charger's speed is limited by the charger's capacity and the vehicle's maximum charging rate

The DC chargers at the fast charging stations have that double plug type

Hope that helps

Not totally true, AC charging speed is determined by the lowest of the car and charger.
22kW requires 32A 3-phases which is virtually unavailable for residential around Europe, 11kW is the most people can get on residential on 3-phases and 7.2kW on 1-phase.
So except in the case of commercial premises with 22kW AC charger(s), the limiting factor is not the car.

 

[Gino]

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the 11 / 22kw OBC relates to AC charging. Where it requires the smaller charging port.

The DC (fast charging) is unaffected by this (up to 270kw), where the extra chargng port flap is used.

In the US it is common to have or install 220V service in garages so buying the 22KW option makes a lot of sense to have the maximum charging speed in your garage if you need it even if it is very rare it will be used.
Unfortunately my garage cannot have 220V AC because it requires me to dig up the driveway in my community which the HOA will not approve. Even if they did it would cost $20K to $30K to do it so it’s not worth it for my low use case.
After 2 years and only 10K miles of driving my Taycan I realize I don’t need to 220V at all. We don’t drive it more than 100 to 150 miles per week when we’re home and we have 3 other vehicles we drive as well for different purposes. So we happily charge at 1.2KW to 1.5KW with our 120V Porsche or Lectron chargers with no issues and apparently it looks like only charging at 120V to 85% will make our battery last 20+ years…(hopefully)
But I could also see getting a second EV if I had 220V in my garage and want the fastest charge rate to charge either/both cars but I would likely just put both on 120V slow AC chargers in that case as well.

 

[RobboWWFC]

I'm on my second Taycan now. TBH, this will be my last one. As much as I love driving it, I am sick of the niggles these things have. I could excuse the original 2020 model due to it being brand new, but now 5 years later Porsche still can't seem to get it right.

My charging ports are giving me problems. Intermittent problems but it can happen anytime /anywhere. Its been into Porsche 3 times in 1 year and we are still no further forward as to understanding why this happens.

 

[Persuader]

Hi.
I'm in the UK.
When my 22KW charger failed, (which I never had the opportunity to take advantage of), Porsche refunded the original option price of £1296, and gave me a £1500 credit to spend on anything ie servicing, accessories etc, and I didn't even purchase the car brand new and so technically had never paid the extra for the 22KW option.
So I'm very happy.

 

[anonymouse]

Porsche refunded the original option price of £1296, and gave me a £1500 credit to spend on anything ie servicing, accessories etc, and I didn't even purchase the car brand new and so technically had never paid the extra for the 22KW option.
So I'm very happy.

Wow you did well there. That is a fantastic outcome.

In reality the value of a 22kW charger is close to nil once you drive the new car off the forecourt. When I sold my first Taycan (which did have a 22kW charger) there is absolutely no way they would have adjusted the price up or down by 1p if it had had 11kW rather than 22kW.

So if you can get the option price refunded, go for it. But it has depreciated to zero. Sadly that's the way with most of the Porsche options.

 

[tycanmt]

Question, if the 11kw OBC is so efficient why would Porsche bother to develop/build and offer a 22kw OBC. From recollection the answer was pretty straight forward "when you're charging on the road it will halve your charging time" Your comments seem to suggest the 22kw OBC has no significant benefits?

That's wrong. It has nothing to do with "charging on the road", only charging at home (or perhaps, but very unlikely, at a hotel or an office). The "onboard charger" is a thing that deals with adapting "wall power" to what the car needs to charge. A "road charger" already supplies what the batteries need, and so the onboard charger is not used.

 

[tycanmt]

As soon as I told him the make and model, he asked “was the car on charge, and had the fuse tripped on the EV charger” I said yes, he said “sorry mate nothing I can do, the onboard charger’s blown, I’ll arrange transport” !!!!!

I had a similar experience with a Cayenne (ICE, but it has a lithium battery). Porsche were unsure what the problem was. When the flat bed guy showed up (in a place with very few Porsche) he immediately said "oh that battery costs $2000 and will need to be replaced, can't be revived".

 

[Dee]

fast conclusion…. we all have different use, needs.

I only charge at work, 22kW. done in 2 or 3 hrs (or less) and then i can free the charger for someone else or use the car to go to a meeting and back. It would be totally different if I needed 4 to 6 hrs .

I highly doubt it.
You would find a solution for that one occasion, I'm sure.

 

[StephNL]

In the US it is common to have or install 220V service in garages so buying the 22KW option makes a lot of sense to have the maximum charging speed in your garage if you need it even if it is very rare it will be used.
Unfortunately my garage cannot have 220V AC because it requires me to dig up the driveway in my community which the HOA will not approve. Even if they did it would cost $20K to $30K to do it so it’s not worth it for my low use case.
After 2 years and only 10K miles of driving my Taycan I realize I don’t need to 220V at all. We don’t drive it more than 100 to 150 miles per week when we’re home and we have 3 other vehicles we drive as well for different purposes. So we happily charge at 1.2KW to 1.5KW with our 120V Porsche or Lectron chargers with no issues and apparently it looks like only charging at 120V to 85% will make our battery last 20+ years…(hopefully)
But I could also see getting a second EV if I had 220V in my garage and want the fastest charge rate to charge either/both cars but I would likely just put both on 120V slow AC chargers in that case as well.

220-240V is basic voltage in Europe residential 1-phase (and 480V in 3-phases) but we are usually getting around 25A per phase for basic subscription, after that monthly network cost are increasingly significantly.
I’m paying $40/month (network cost, no energy included) for 3x25A but 3x50A would jump to $250/month. 11kW is more than enough at home to recharge overnight.

 

[Gino]

220-240V is basic voltage in Europe residential 1-phase (and 480V in 3-phases) but we are usually getting around 25A per phase for basic subscription, after that monthly network cost are increasingly significantly.
I’m paying $40/month (network cost, no energy included) for 3x25A but 3x50A would jump to $250/month. 11kW is more than enough at home to recharge overnight.

Wow, that’s expensive to have 220v/240v. In the US it doesn’t matter because everyone has 120V & 240V service in their homes but the 240V is used for electric ranges & HVAC. Many older homes only have 100A service so adding 25A to 50A for EV charging in garages means many homes have to upgrade their panels to 150A or 200A panels to accommodate 1 or 2 EVs.
If you have the panel capacity then it is easy to run the wire and install a 50A breaker but if you have a 100A panel (like I do) then you have to make sure you don’t run your oven/range when you’re charging. Most people in this situation usually charge from midnight to 6am when they are surely not cooking anything. If they have an EV with a huge battery like the performance plus battery and they drive over 100 miles a day or have two EVs to charge then I could see why they purchased the 22KW option.
I’m just lucky we don’t drive more than 100-150 miles a week or a max of 100 miles in a day maybe once or twice a month so we are finding even 240V is necessary for our low use case.

 

[FIX]

My 2021 did the same, plugged it in one night for a charge with the Tesla AC adapter, and came out in the AM, with the breaker blown, everything red and had to push it out of the garage onto the tow truck. They towed it at there expense, and replaced the charger with the 11K version, $6K but under warranty. New one works fine, no effect on overnight AC charging. I am now using the Porsche chart unit.

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