Porsche unable to engineer a reliable heater?

[Tooney]

Canadian vehicle safety regulator says windshield defroster that does not work may cause reduced visibility and increase risk of crash. Taycan heater 'campaigns' in Canada are recalls.

If windshield defroster in your car does not work, report it to NHTSA so this continuing Taycan problem gets additional public attention.

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[Fish Fingers]

Got an update from service, Porsche does not automatically approve heater replacement for any car that already had the heater replaced in the past (as they put it, it already has an "updated heater"). They require a full, multi-day dealer diagnostics visit, sending stuff to Germany, waiting them to get to looking at it between holidays, etc. Of course those appointments are not available on the spot, so for me it's more than couple of weeks before my car even starts this process. No loaners until then either. And of course, no remote diagnostics capability either.

It really makes me wonder, is Porsche process designed for deter customers from buying their cars for actual driving - they only want customers who use their cars just to look at them, but have other, reliable cars for driving (so I guess not a Porsche)? I was thinking of replacing my wife's Audi with a Macan EV as the next car, but honestly, she would probably leave me if I got get into a car with Porsche reliability. And I thought Tesla was bad with my early adopter experience, but in my decade of Tesla ownership they never left be without a car to drive for over 2 weeks, nor did any of my Teslas spend as much time at the shop as the Taycan. This is such a different experience than my 2001 911C4 I got in 2001 - that car ran with nothing but scheduled maintenance (except for tires, I used them up much faster).

Porsche 'service' is a joke nowadays.
I would imagine it may be worst in class, from my personal experience.

And I thought they had fixed the heater with a redesign a couple of years back, but obviously not.

Anyone know what the cost is for replacing the heater, out of warranty?
Item cost and number of labour hours?

I vaguely recall it was about £5k per heater??

 

[B61]

It seems like there are a bunch of people here who say they had to select the option in European markets at least in earlier years. Poland for example.

It was an option in the beginning, i had to select it too (2021), but later it became standard.

 

[B61]

Hmm... I wonder if this is part of Porsche's plan to address dealer's concerns about EV's not needing service as often. So maybe it's by design, ensures cars are regularly in service.

In my whole life, I haven’t had any car with so many recalls and failures before.
And I couldn’t recall any case that I haven’t received it back on the same day

 

[whitex]

In my whole life, I haven’t had any car with so many recalls and failures before.

Me neither, and I owned a lot of cars, including 4 Teslas since they were a fresh, young company with first ever mass produced car (2013 Model S was my first Tesla).

And I couldn’t recall any case that I haven’t received it back on the same day

I have, sometimes waiting for parts, but I always got a loaner for situations like this. Granted, Porsche will give me a loaner half a month from now once they get the car in, but not right now. Honestly, they could so use some 21st century tech, like ability to remote diagnose and order parts. It would save them money, as the heater exchange is same day if the part is in, I could probably deal without a loaner for a day if I have it scheduled.

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

Feels very Model S circa up to 2018. I think they were on Iss E before they fixed it finally.

Moisture, HV, poor insulation that cracks with heat cycles do not a good mixture make but there's a lot of learning in the control software too.

I doubt Porsche are on top of that.

 

[whitex]

Feels very Model S circa up to 2018. I think they were on Iss E before they fixed it finally.

Moisture, HV, poor insulation that cracks with heat cycles do not a good mixture make but there's a lot of learning in the control software too.

I doubt Porsche are on top of that.

I owned 2013, 2015, 2017, and 2018 Model S'es (two at the time) for a decade. The longest one (215 P85DL) I had for almost 8 years. None of them needed service as much as the one Taycan I've owned.

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

I owned 2013, 2015, 2017, and 2018 Model S'es (two at the time) for a decade. The longest one (215 P85DL) I had for almost 8 years. None of them needed service as much as the one Taycan I've owned.

p

I still have my my Model S. I remember 17/18 Winters when Ss and Xs were piled up like cordwood awaiting heater replacements.

The EV fundamentals of my S were and still are far more sound than my Taycan but it's also had a huge number of service visits for many other (sometimes fairly fundamental) components across the car over the near 8 years I've had it.

 

[tigerbalm]

Point being they didn't design the heater, they bought one and installed it.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_AU/2024/products/porsche-taycan-endurance-tests-35069.html

They do test the heck out of the car in extreme conditions – and yet still this heater is super unreliable. That one is difficult to understand – but assuming they are not ignoring failing/unreliable parts during testing – it points to the extensive testing still not being realistic enough for real world usage.

Perhaps the testing is extreme and a lot of distance is covered, but its in a very short period of time and the heaters survive it and only start to fail as they get "older".

Something isn't right though and not adding up. I'd love to understand it.

 

[Solid]

They do use it to dump energy into the coolant during regeneration with a full battery, maybe it is stressed more if you regularly charge to full.

 

[mander2129]

Anyone ever ask to keep the old heater? Might be interesting to actually try and figure out the failure mechanism to see if we can do any maintenance or change how it is used.

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_AU/2024/products/porsche-taycan-endurance-tests-35069.html

They do test the heck out of the car in extreme conditions – and yet still this heater is super unreliable. That one is difficult to understand – but assuming they are not ignoring failing/unreliable parts during testing – it points to the extensive testing still not being realistic enough for real world usage.

Perhaps the testing is extreme and a lot of distance is covered, but its in a very short period of time and the heaters survive it and only start to fail as they get "older".

Something isn't right though and not adding up. I'd love to understand it.

Extremes are one thing but sometimes day to day usage in normal conditions in each market can be worse.

Particularly part cold conditions especialy with diurnal freezing point transitions.

 

[whitex]

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_AU/2024/products/porsche-taycan-endurance-tests-35069.html

They do test the heck out of the car in extreme conditions – and yet still this heater is super unreliable. That one is difficult to understand – but assuming they are not ignoring failing/unreliable parts during testing – it points to the extensive testing still not being realistic enough for real world usage.

Perhaps the testing is extreme and a lot of distance is covered, but its in a very short period of time and the heaters survive it and only start to fail as they get "older".

Something isn't right though and not adding up. I'd love to understand it.

It may not be the extreme conditions that kill it. I live in a fairly mild climate. Maybe in extreme conditions the heater gets sufficient cooling from the outside, but in mild climate it overheats and burns itself out?

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

It may not be the extreme conditions that kill it. I live in a fairly mild climate. Maybe in extreme conditions the heater gets sufficient cooling from the outside, but in mild climate it overheats and burns itself out?

This. Dew and condendation build up is the principal killer together with cracked insulation caused by thermal cycling.

pretty established art these things together with model in the loop control to prevent and control thermal shock and gradients.

Of course if you just buy the part in you hang the warranty on your supplier.

 

[whitex]

Point being they didn't design the heater, they bought one and installed it.

They presumably design the car, therefore should be vetting the design and reliability of the parts they choose to put into their designs. If the wheels started falling off and continued to do so for years, would you say "Porsches are solidly designed cars, ignore the wheels falling off, that's the wheel supplier's fault".

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