150kw option?

[daveo4EV]

Extremely comprehensive analysis of the subject! I will definitely not debate the factual portion of your post.

You had me right up to "You should get the 400V/150kW charging option..." That is not an undeniable fact, it is your (well informed) opinion, and I get the impression from your garage you are less concerned about cost than even the average Taycan buyer. I looked at all of your (and other's) very helpful data in the past and didn't equip my 4S (should be in production this month) with it... I chose premium, heated seats, turbo wheels, propulsion sound, massaging seats, and upgraded paint as my options. Getting the bigger battery (adds a lot of weight to an already way too heavy car, puts more strain on suspension/brakes, more wear and tear on tires,...) which does boost horsepower but just enough to compensate for the extra weight, getting this someday-possibly-useful charging option didn't make the cut for me.

Also to note, if Tesla opens up existing chargers or future chargers (and if future are still 400v), there is no way of knowing if they will allow > 50kW rate to non TSLA vehicles anyway, plus existing TSLA chargers share power in neighboring stalls so your chance of getting > 50kW rate isn't great even if they did. And I've spoken to Taycan 4S owners charging at 350kW EA chargers with SoC in ideal ~20%-50% range showing peak charge rates below 100kW so there's no way this option would ever give you consistently reliable 3x (150kW) peak charge rates anyway. Peak rates are great advertising but average rate throughout a charge is far more relevant and most likely the difference here (even assuming TSLA does the optimal thing for Taycan owners with this option) is more like 1.8x faster charging. So for me it was a no brainer to skip this option, as I 99% charge for free at work or home, can find EA chargers when I need it for the occasional long trip, and am not likely to keep my Taycan 4S much more than a year anyway.

thanks for this - it's a resonable discussion

I will add one note: Elon more than anyone understands the most valuable resource at a supercharger is "time" - he's even said that much publically in his twitter feed - limiting vehicles to 50 kW (or less) is not in anyone's interest - and so far to date none of the non-Tesla's in europe have been "limited" to 50 kW - unless they bring that limit with them in terms of not provisioning a faster DC charger for their vehicle…but we'll see and your comments are reasonable - europe does not need an adapter

but I'm wiling to bet it will not be limited and most Superchargers are at least 72/120/150 kW - all of which are faster than 50 kW - and therefore vehicles will occupy the stall for less time by charging at a faster rate - which is in EVERYONE's best interest - no one ever says…

hey - my EV is charging too fast - slow it down!!!

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[DerekS]

That’s fine. I have a hard time fathoming it. All public charging is entirely too slow IMO and I have no intention of participating anytime soon, so it makes little difference to me.

It’s kind of like asking me “Do you want a job that pays $1/hr or $2/hr?”

Um…neither, thanks.

So...no road trips at all then?

Public AC charging is slow, but fast DC charging is pretty great IMO.

 

[DerekS]

no one ever says…
hey - my EV is charging too fast - slow it down!!!

And yet that "battery friendly" charging setting does exactly that.

 

[daveo4EV]

And yet that "battery friendly" charging setting does exactly that.

yeah - but in reality the taycan spends very little time above 200 kW - but can spend most of it's entire charging level above 50 kW (the key limit being discussed in this thread) - based on my 2020 Taycan at local 150 kW/800V EA chargers - my Taycan rarely dips below 50 kW until well after 93 or 95% SOC…so for well over 90% of the entire charging cycle the Taycan can and does charge at a rate more than 50 kW…

one charging session @ EA station in Aptos, CA near my home I was still charging at 52.7 kW @ 94% SOC - and didn't dip below 50 kW until 96% (see picture)

so the taper curve of the Taycan will charge the battery at more than 50 kW until about 95% - viewing kWh as "area under the charging curve" [which is fact what it is] - 2% to 95% range where you could be charging at more than 50 kW will save a LOT of time at a charge…I mean if the charge rate was below 50 kW at like 70% SOC (like my Model 3) yeah that's not as much as a savings

but my Taycan can certainly charge at more than 50 kW for virtually all of it's battery's charging capacity…but if I'm limited to 50 kW - well then that's going to take quite a bit more time.

 

[daveo4EV]

And yet that "battery friendly" charging setting does exactly that.

oh and 10 points to house @DerekS - yeah that's exactly what that option does - but only compromises the charge rate for the early 30% and capping it 200 kW is still way higher than the 150 kW limit we're talking about here - so charging at 150 kW is both good for the battery (based on optional porsche's 200 kW limit) and faster than 50 kW…

but yeah - you caught me - you win - like I said 10 points to house @DerekS

 

[DerekS]

but yeah - you caught me - you win - like I said 10 points to house @DerekS

Whoa, we get points here? How do I spend them??

 

[Jhenson29]

So...no road trips at all then?

Public AC charging is slow, but fast DC charging is pretty great IMO.

I “road trip” plenty. I probably do between 45k and 60k miles/year, and have been at that rate for around 16 years (since I was 22).

But in an electric car? Not a chance. Too slow, too much planning, and not enough backups (stations are too spread out).

I can go 450 miles before refilling in my Macan. And my off HWY time is typically less than 10 min (if I’m hitting the restroom and getting food also; less than 5 min for just gas). There’s a Silverado 3500 at work I can get 600 miles out of between stops. And there is zero planning. And in the rare case that I have an issue at a pump (like once every few years) there is almost always one or more gas stations right next door.

An EV simply can’t touch that. And that’s fine. It doesn’t have to the best at everything.

Something else though, I spend a fair amount of time keeping up with the RL 992 forum. Guess how many threads there about issues putting gas in the car….vs how many threads on here about issues charging….?

Now, all that said, for local use, the EV is fantastic. And the car we replaced with the Taycan has never gone on a trip that would have required public charging in the 6 years we owned it. So, it just happens that we have a use case for a vehicle we put 1k miles/month on that never has to road trip. So it makes a lot sense for us, even with my poor opinion of public charging.

And…if public charging works for you or another, then by all means, have at it. Someone have to create a market so it can expand.

 

[ejcintr]

yeah - but in reality the taycan spends very little time above 200 kW - but can spend most of it's entire charging level above 50 kW (the key limit being discussed in this thread) - based on my 2020 Taycan at local 150 kW/800V EA chargers - my Taycan rarely dips below 50 kW until well after 93 or 95% SOC…so for well over 90% of the entire charging cycle the Taycan can and does charge at a rate more than 50 kW…

one charging session @ EA station in Aptos, CA near my home I was still charging at 52.7 kW @ 94% SOC - and didn't dip below 50 kW until 96% (see picture)

so the taper curve of the Taycan will charge the battery at more than 50 kW until about 95% - viewing kWh as "area under the charging curve" [which is fast what it is] - 2% to 95% range where you could be charging at more than 50 kW will save a LOT of time at a charge…I mean if the charge rate was below 50 kW at like 70% SOC (like my Model 3) yeah that's not as much as a savings

but my Taycan can certainly charge at more than 50 kW for virtually all of it's battery's charging capacity…but if I'm limited to 50 kW - well then that's going to take quite a bit more time.

You should just be happy that the Aptos EA charger worked at all... ???

 

[daveo4EV]

You should just be happy that the Aptos EA charger worked at all... ???

yes true - I've been posting negative charing experiences in plugshare - EA seems to monitor them - recently all 4 stalls have been working, and working well - I've been impressed lately - fingers crossed.

 

[daveo4EV]

Whoa, we get points here? How do I spend them??

I'll let you know when I find out - I'm still looking.

 

[bosbruce]

And yet that "battery friendly" charging setting does exactly that.

And, if I decide I want to keep my Taycan for 22 years like my 986 Boxster S (without replacing battery), I'd do best to charge it at a 6kW rate, maybe even lower with 110v connection. I have friends who I convinced to get Bolts (sold mine just before battery issue blew up) who want to charge it at even the slower wattage level for 110v to be extra sure their car doesn't end up being the 14th Bolt fire.

Speaking of which, there was a discussion elsewhere of Taycan battery issue using 6-19kW AC charging, right? Anyone aware of Porsche addressing this rather than just remapping batteries and reducing headroom that protects remaining batteries?

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