DC charging issue/failures

[pio]

My understanding is when you are DC charging, while the car's battery management system is in control of the charging session, the "charger" itself is the equipment outside of the car providing DC directly the battery.

With AC, yes the charger (AC to DC) is in the car.

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[tigerbalm]

I’m still curious about recup vs braking strategies on the RWD. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any definitive information on the topic, but if I’ve missed it, someone can point me to it.

Me neither. The only thing I know is that when the RWD launched – it did so with the software that took out the "AWD display" from the left tube on the dashboard. And did the same when they rolled out that software ("the big update") to all Taycan's.

I still miss it.

 

[whitex]

AWD in my experience is a nice to have, but usually not critical unless you're off-roading, driving on snowy roads all by yourself, or driving in hilly mountainous terrain where AWD, winter tires or chains are required, or you're looking to tow people out of snow banks and such, or need to drive in environments where only AWD will do (perhaps a healthcare worker who has to get to work no matter the conditions). On most other roads, 2wd will have slower acceleration, so less performance, but should still make it. If you are on a road where AWD is not required but RWD is slowing you down, take solace in the fact that you're not the only non-AWD vehicle on said road, so most likely even if you had AWD you'd have been slowed by some non-AWD vehicle ahead of you. If the road is unpassable by a 2WD vehicle, changes are someone else is already blocking it. AWD can help you be able to park in more remote parts, not yet cleared part of parking lots, but that's a kind of "off-roading".

I like AWD for performance reasons, so I pay for it, but today's cars with capable stability controls make RWD quite capable, especially on EV's which can adjust torque instantly (no flywheel momentum).

 

[tigerbalm]

Quick update

My Porsche Centre has been trying to re-create the failure – but have managed to drain the battery to near empty and charge back up to 100% on DC four times without triggering the issue. They do have a local power issue at the moment so their DC chargers are maxing out at 100 kW.

So I decided to take the car back at 100% charge – drive it down to around a third and try again at an IONITY.

After two hours of driving around on Sports Plus, I arrive at an IONITY station in north Dublin.

This was a small two pedestal location that recently got six stalls.

Charging started at a healthy 245 kW.

And within about 2 mins and 30 seconds it had failed.

Here is a full raw video (with no audio) of the 2 minute 40 second charging session:



I can easily reproduce this issue but it does seem to require the following characteristics:

1. Battery is around 30% and pre-heated so fast charging is possible.
2. Charger is capable of delivering at least 200 kW (though I had had similar problems on ESB 150 kW chargers).

After the failed session, I plugged in a (borrowed) OBD reader to pull the error codes. These were the ones present that matched the charging session timestamp and current odometer at the station:

1. Code 54086 – HV Heater 2, Voltage too low
2. Code 2097292 – Quick battery charging (DC), Charging station incompatible
3. Code 2097264 - Can't find anything on that one!
4. Code 3145729 – HV converter

Additionally, I tried a session with "Battery-saving fast charging" mode enabled – to see if limiting charging to 200 kW would help. But that session also errored within 1.5 minutes.

I think next steps is going to have to be to go with Porsche Centre technician and workshop laptop to a public IONITY station and try grab live logs while charging.

It's a bit interesting that the HV heater is sticking its oar in – given the issues with them at present.

I can't see this car being fixed in the next three weeks for our road-trip to Norway.

 

[whitex]

@tigerbalm , perhaps a long shot, but could WMP5 be your issue? You probably wouldn't notice a lack of air conditioning during winter.
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-wmp5-march-9-2022-updated.18489/#post-285103

 

[tigerbalm]

Today managed to get a Porsche Centre technician and a PIWIS to travel 40 km north of Dublin to the nearest IONITY station – to log some values while the failure happens.

Started to log the values that Porsche Germany need to know while the failure occurs.

And what would you know: the failure didn't happen! The first time I've been to a public charger and it not fail in a month!

The IONITY only delivered 147 kW – and we've usually seen the issue when its above 200 kW - so not sure if that was the issue.

So annoying and makes debugging this issue that bit more difficult. I really thought today we'd find out the underlying problem.

 

[Donlam]

My car was charged @ 243kw at the same location last September, shouldn't affacted by the colder weather. But it had only 2 stations back then. Now it has 6 stations.

 

[tigerbalm]

My car was charged @ 243kw at the same location last September, shouldn't affacted by the colder weather. But it had only 2 stations back then. Now it has 6 stations.

The car broke at the exact same pedestal on Monday (video above) when it delivered 245 kW. However, there were no cars at the other pedestal's that time – and this time the station was busy. While IONITY is supposed to deliver 350 kW to each unit – it's possible that it did some load balancing.

 

[whitex]

The car broke at the exact same pedestal on Monday (video above) when it delivered 245 kW. However, there were no cars at the other pedestal's that time – and this time the station was busy. While IONITY is supposed to deliver 350 kW to each unit – it's possible that it did some load balancing.

In the US some of the 350KW stations depend on battery storage at the site, as the site does not have sufficient service to provide full load from utility. Those batteries fill up when idle, and typically overnight, so full 350KW is only available in the mornings if the site is busy.

 

[Donlam]

Today managed to get a Porsche Centre technician and a PIWIS to travel 40 km north of Dublin to the nearest IONITY station – to log some values while the failure happens.

Started to log the values that Porsche Germany need to know while the failure occurs.

And what would you know: the failure didn't happen! The first time I've been to a public charger and it not fail in a month!

The IONITY only delivered 147 kW – and we've usually seen the issue when its above 200 kW - so not sure if that was the issue.

So annoying and makes debugging this issue that bit more difficult. I really thought today we'd find out the underlying problem.

You may limit the charging speed by selected the battery saver thoughout the whole charging session if that is the case.

 

[tigerbalm]

You may limit the charging speed by selected the battery saver thoughout the whole charging session if that is the case.

I did try that earlier in the week – and it didn't make any difference. Good thinking though.

 

[tigerbalm]

After the frustrations of earlier today I went back to the same IONITY station late this evening. Plugged in and the charging failed within 10 seconds of starting. OMG, why didn't this happen earlier when we had the logging computer plugged in?

I did have my own OBDII logging in place – so at least have captured something.

I walked away for 5 minutes to reset the charger – a short enough period – but I've seen it reset in that timeframe this week.

No luck, charging immediately failed again. I assumed, I had not given it enough time to reset – so I drove to a nearby hotel and had some food, leaving the car sit far away in the car park for over an hour.

Drove back to IONITY, tried two pedestals there and both immediately failed. Stopped in at a 150 kW 400V charger on my way home and it too failed immediately.

Parked up at home – expecting AC to also not work until car is fully reset – but its charging away on AC with no problem.

Right now at time of writing – DC charging is completely broken – and I really hope it stays that way – as it would make fixing this issue much easier.

I am waiting to get a few % of SoC into the car on AC – before going to one more nearby 400V charger to check if charging on AC has fixed anything

If not, I'll awake early tomorrow – try DC again – and if it still is failing – I'll test out at my Porsche Centre. Fingers crossed that the DC Booster was on its way out and has now broken. Please, please, just be regular broken !

 

[snstevens]

After the frustrations of earlier today I went back to the same IONITY station late this evening. Plugged in and the charging failed within 10 seconds of starting. OMG, why didn't this happen when earlier when we had the logging computer plugged in.

I did have my own OBDII logging in place – so at least have captured something.

I walked away for 5 minutes to reset the charger – a short enough period – but I've seen it reset in that timeframe this week.

No luck, charging immediately failed again. I assumed, I had not given it enough time to reset – so I drove to a nearby hotel and had some food, leaving the car sit far away in the car park for over an hour.

Drove back to IONITY, tried two pedestals there and both immediately failed. Stopped in at a 150 kW 400V charger on my way home and it too failed immediately.

Parked up at home – expecting AC to also not work until car is fully reset – but its charging away on AC with no problem.

Right now at time of writing – DC charging is completely broken – and I really hope it stays that way – as it would make fixing this issue much easier.

I am waiting to get a few % of SoC into the car on AC – before going to one more nearby 400V charger to check if charging on AC has fixed anything

If not, I'll awake early tomorrow – try DC again – and if it still is failing – I'll test out at my Porsche Centre. Fingers crossed that the DC Booster was on its way out and has now broken. Please, please, just be regular broken !

I'm late to this thread, but have you also demonstrated that the problem happens at different Ionity sites, or so far is it just one site? Your earlier visit to Ionity with a Porsche Tech sounded like it was a different site.

 

[tigerbalm]

I'm late to this thread, but have you also demonstrated that the problem happens at different Ionity sites, or so far is it just one site? Your earlier visit to Ionity with a Porsche Tech sounded like it was a different site.

Same site today (with Porsche) and tonight myself. But I've tried and failed at four different IONITY sites. And I think there are only six sites in the country. I have also tried three different 400V and 800V networks ranging from 50 kW to 180 kW.

Plus the 300 kW chargers (rated down to 100 kW) at Porsche Centre – which failed once at 65 kW and then was fine for three back-to-back charge/deplete cycles.

 

[snstevens]

Same site today (with Porsche) and tonight myself. But I've tried and failed at four different IONITY sites. And I think there are only six sites in the country. I have also tried three different 400V and 800V networks ranging from 50 kW to 180 kW.

Plus the 300 kW chargers (rated down to 100 kW) at Porsche Centre – which failed once at 65 kW and then was fine for three back-to-back charge/deplete cycles.

Thanks. My hope for you is that you have a total failure of DC charging so the Porsche can own up and fix it for you.

Sorry you're going through this!

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