EV Adoption/Sales

[irrelevant]

All car sales are down, regardless whether EV or ICE.

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[Ducs]

All car sales are down, regardless whether EV or ICE.

MY OP is regarding EV value depreciation rates in comparison to ICE. But I'm sure economic headwinds have affected all auto sales. It's not something I am tracking closely.

 

[Vercingetorix]

We've used IEA data in our calculations in the past. IEA used to provide solid data.

Since their climate marriage to the IPCC/adoption of COP28/Agenda 21 etc they've accepted fair amounts of persuasive (dare I say biased) funding. Both orgs have been called out for collating only data that fit their narrative instead of objectively comparing data and letting the chips fall where they may. Subsequently we stopped using their data when we pointed out irregularities that they decided didn't fit the goals and were omitted.

Doesn't matter to me what agency provides data as long as they are pro-energy, pro-development, and run their numbers from resource procurement, processing, cost, end product and resulting product's energy footprint.

It's great if more units are sold and people find value. Wonderful tools and exciting to drive.
But panacea for supposed climate emergencies that are still up for debate? Nah.

You seem to squarely have that axe to grind. I'm in it for the fun. If we develop cars that run on water with similar performance sign me up. It's a great side benefit. I like energy. I don't like a tech for its vaunted messiah status... unless of course it's cold fusion and all our problems are forever solved.

Who is we and our?

 

[Ducs]

Who is we and our?

I work for a family office of 3 UHNW individuals who have assembled an in-house investment team and contract consultancy with lifelong WS energy brokers, a small team of experienced chemical/industrial engineers, just to start. Business ventures/ore extraction on 3 continents

 

[Vercingetorix]

I work for a family office of 3 UHNW individuals who have assembled an in-house investment team and contract consultancy with lifelong WS energy brokers, a small team of experienced chemical/industrial engineers, just to start. Business ventures/ore extraction on 3 continents

I missed you at the axe grinding this morning.

 

[Ducs]

I missed you at the axe grinding this morning.

lol...well darnit, send me an invite next time please!

I love EV. I love the tech. It's going to continue to develop and evolve.

What I don't like is the information that is put out about it. I think we can encourage its advancement without sugar coating it. Right now, the immense amount of rare earth elements required per car, and more importantly, the carbon required to extract and process it, far outweigh its claimed benefit.
Doesn't mean we should not pursue its possibilities. It simply isn't accurate, that in its current state, it solves a problem that may or may not exist.

Anyway, grind away! I will happily buy more Taycans!!

 

[speedingcarefully]

Love driving this car, except (maybe) how it “makes me” drive a bit aggressively at times. Well, I love driving it that way but my wife sure as hell doesn’t lol. Happy to hold onto the car but I will think long & hard before buying another EV with the way these things depreciate faster than a rock in free fall. Like I said, I was poised to get the new Macan EV for my wife, but now…. not so much.

 

[FlyingPoint]

Dismissing the news site as right wing doesn’t change how my car has depreciated over 50% in one year.

Ouch! This why one has to lease.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

What I don't like is the information that is put out about it. I think we can encourage its advancement without sugar coating it. Right now, the immense amount of rare earth elements required per car, and more importantly, the carbon required to extract and process it, far outweigh its claimed benefit.

This thread moved on faster than I could get back to it, so I won't address your earlier points one by one (besides, I doubt I'd change any opinions, or that I'd be sharing heretofore-unheard truths). I will point out, however, that:
- presenting data absolutely involves "bias"; it relies on the presenter's decision, conscious or not, on what data is included, what is left out, the way it is represented and so on. I wasn't really asking for your agreement, nor was it about the article you shared - I was stating that a stance of "can't argue with numbers" is naive (or, worse, disingenuous);
- regarding the costs outweighing the claimed benefit: as ever, it's a tradeoff, and so a society will try to evaluate pluses and minuses, and rank them on a complex scale of priorities - which, one would hope, are decided democratically. We make some good decisions, and try and re-do the bad ones. However, you can't, in the same sentence/thread, dismiss the deferred cost/risk of a nuclear plant while saying the environmental impact of mining lithium is unacceptable. The two are simply not on the same scale - or at least not on my own biased scale, partially informed by being a kid ~400mi downwind from Chernobyl when that happened. (I do get the difference between an accident and storing spent fuel, I hasten to add; I'm now less than 200mi from Hanford, and sleep pretty well. Still.)

I love EV. I love the tech. It's going to continue to develop and evolve.

I'm in vehement agreement. It's no bad thing for anyone to try, even if they have to make little compromises.

 

[DCYL725]

I work for a family office of 3 UHNW individuals who have assembled an in-house investment team and contract consultancy with lifelong WS energy brokers, a small team of experienced chemical/industrial engineers, just to start. Business ventures/ore extraction on 3 continents

Do you guys to asset allocations only or also dip your hands in direct investment into private companies, public equity etc.?

 

[WuffvonTrips]

No, but the article is missing the context that you probably have... that the Taycan drop in value is largely due to the announcement of a much better version of the same car being released. Responsible journalism would have explained that.

"Better"- certainly (aside from styling), but "much" is a bit of a stretch IMO. I think a more significant factor (at least in UK) is the apparently unexpected level of sales to tax-subsidised business buyers on lease-type finance, who only want new vehicles and now have a much wider choice of alternatives to a Taycan, which might not even have been their best fit in terms of use case (and for whom the EV Macan might be a favoured option).

 

[neilj007]

Ouch! This why one has to lease.

My local OPC has a lovely Turbo CT, 6 months old, 2300 miles, £87k - apparently part-ex as part of a deal to get a Spyder - that's some hit taken in 6 months...must have been list of £130k

So, I enquired to part-ex my 2020 Turbo - they offered me £4k more than my GFV on the PCP which runs another 3.5 years...a 35% loss in 6 months. Even WBAC valued it at higher.

Either the OPC's are still very nervous about taking in Taycans as part-ex, or they didn't want my business...or maybe both!!

 

[whitex]

Dismissing the news site as right wing doesn’t change how my car has depreciated over 50% in one year.

Care to link some US listings of one year old Taycan Turbos at under 50% off MSRP?

 

[speedingcarefully]

Care to link some US listings of one year old Taycan Turbos at under 50% off MSRP?

I didn’t receive my 2022 Turbo until December 2022. One year later I received a letter from Porsche encouraging me to trade it in. Their offer was below 50% of what I paid for it.

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