Hybrid Alternative to all electric

[Vim Schrotnock]

I will probably be pilloried, drawn and quartered etc. for this post, but I'm revising my opinion on all-electric cars.

First of all, I love my Turbo S. It is the best car I've ever had, and it is probably the most beautiful car I will ever own. The performance is staggering, and it is a joy to drive day-to-day. However, the burden of charging has caused me to rethink my use of the car, and I avoid long road-trips simply because of the uncertainty and inconvenience of charging at a remote station where I need to travel out of my way to get there, and it may involve a wait if stations are not functioning or available.

My wife just got a Mercedes 450GLE with the hybrid electric motor that gives 50-60 miles on a charge, and will charge 0-100% in three hours with a simple 220 outlet. She absolutely loves the car, and after three months still has half a tank of gas. This is also the car that we will be taking on all our longer road trips, because of the convenience and anxiety relieving gas engine. It's funny because she was not a fan of electric cars, but now she is spoiled, and loves the all-electric mode of the car. I'm amazed by this car - it has a better ride than my Taycan, and is incredibly quiet, smooth, and has 500+ miles of range.

I looked at the new Panamera Turbo with 670 HP and a hybrid motor with some 22kWh battery capacity, which should be good for 50-60 miles around town, and I really like the car. In fact, knowing what I know now, I would probably have chosen this car instead of my Taycan if both had been available at the same time. I would have almost all of the benefits of having an electric car with almost none of the problems. I think this may be the way of the future. Until the charging infrastructure is as prevalent as gas stations, I don't see all-electric cars taking over. With the upcoming severe strain on our electric grid infrastructure, I think the trend to hybrids will accelerate, especially as the hybrid motors gain capacity.

I'm wondering if anyone else here shares these views...

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[daveo4EV]

I can see this and understand the perspective…EV ownership is a problem without reliable fast charging - EA's mismanagement of their charging network is doing lasting physical, emotional, and physiological damage - it's a shame really - because EV's are really no problem _IF_ the charging network is reliable - elsewhere in the world EV owernship is less problematic largely due to a better fast charging network…

I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel yet - but 100% understand the perspective…

I'm optimistic about two things that will continue to push EV's forward (but I admit it's pure optimism)

1. battery weight will continue to come down
2. fast charging will get better over time

#2 is critical - but it's proven it can be done in other regions - the US is simply handicapped by a major network that was deployed using funds from a criminal endeavour - and for some reason we thought these people would be intereseted and motivated to setup a fueling network who's very existence undermines their core historic business modes - and guess what it works like crap and has affect everything from adoption rates to actual capital value of the transportation devices it's supposed to serve…

@Vim Schrotnock perspective is reasonable - but I say this in a zero judgement way - short sighted - longer term I think they are still viable - but understand 100% the perspective.

 

[iamai]

I owned Gen 1 Chevrolet Volt which uses basically the same technology--allows to plug to AC to charge the small on-board battery had a range of up to 40 miles.
I have developed a craving for a quite ride only which meant frequent charging at AC. Long trips are not an issue with an EV if you plan it.
Oh, and forget about maintenance work. Hybrid is so much more complicated.

 

[kempez]

I really was a fan of our hybrid T8, albeit it only does 20-30 miles on a charge. It’s great for short trips still and is a fantastic car

However, where PHEV is a compromise for me is longer trips. It feels pointless using the petrol engine and the MPG dives. It just feels like there must be a better way. Full EV is excellent imo, but as you say: the charging network in the UK/USA is inadequate. The complicated PHEV drive train also feels like something that isn’t great either, with the heavy battery plus the lump and terrible efficiency of an ICE engine. Something like a Prius drivetrain is maybe the way at the moment? I’m not sure. I do love my Taycan though and it works brilliantly for me personally due to short trips and Solar PV/batteries.

 

[Scandinavian]

I looked at the new Panamera Turbo with 670 HP and a hybrid motor with some 22kWh battery capacity, which should be good for 50-60 miles around town, and I really like the car. In fact, knowing what I know now, I would probably have chosen this car instead of my Taycan if both had been available at the same time. I would have almost all of the benefits of having an electric car with almost none of the problems. I think this may be the way of the future. Until the charging infrastructure is as prevalent as gas stations, I don't see all-electric cars taking over. With the upcoming severe strain on our electric grid infrastructure, I think the trend to hybrids will accelerate, especially as the hybrid motors gain capacity.

I'm wondering if anyone else here shares these views...

It is sad to hear this from the US! But can understand the desire to have the best of both worlds. Once the hybrids have such a decent range now, you can use them in cities and local driving with pleasure. And then for long trips the ICE takes over.

Here in continental Europe I have absolutely no problem with charging on long road trips. The infrastructure is well built out and as an example, between Nice to the Belgian border, there are HPC stations at least every 50 km. Plenty of chargers available and always another network reachable. The challenge may be to have the correct app or card for payment, but that is solvable on the spot. The new directive that charging stations need to have credit card payment available means this will not be an issue. May be a bit more expensib]ve but works.

We have done long road trips from Italy to Spain, through France, Germany, Denmark. Sweden and Germany without any problems at all. And some of the northern Swedish roads were not exactly in populated areas.

 

[W1NGE]

I will probably be pilloried, drawn and quartered etc. for this post, but I'm revising my opinion on all-electric cars.

First of all, I love my Turbo S. It is the best car I've ever had, and it is probably the most beautiful car I will ever own. The performance is staggering, and it is a joy to drive day-to-day. However, the burden of charging has caused me to rethink my use of the car, and I avoid long road-trips simply because of the uncertainty and inconvenience of charging at a remote station where I need to travel out of my way to get there, and it may involve a wait if stations are not functioning or available.

My wife just got a Mercedes 450GLE with the hybrid electric motor that gives 50-60 miles on a charge, and will charge 0-100% in three hours with a simple 220 outlet. She absolutely loves the car, and after three months still has half a tank of gas. This is also the car that we will be taking on all our longer road trips, because of the convenience and anxiety relieving gas engine. It's funny because she was not a fan of electric cars, but now she is spoiled, and loves the all-electric mode of the car. I'm amazed by this car - it has a better ride than my Taycan, and is incredibly quiet, smooth, and has 500+ miles of range.

I looked at the new Panamera Turbo with 670 HP and a hybrid motor with some 22kWh battery capacity, which should be good for 50-60 miles around town, and I really like the car. In fact, knowing what I know now, I would probably have chosen this car instead of my Taycan if both had been available at the same time. I would have almost all of the benefits of having an electric car with almost none of the problems. I think this may be the way of the future. Until the charging infrastructure is as prevalent as gas stations, I don't see all-electric cars taking over. With the upcoming severe strain on our electric grid infrastructure, I think the trend to hybrids will accelerate, especially as the hybrid motors gain capacity.

I'm wondering if anyone else here shares these views...

Turbo S hybrid has been around for a few years and the all new just launched.

If depreciation is a concern then this would likely be not the wisest choice.

Folk in UK who are private buyers and "invested" in the Taycan will probably be shocked / disappointed by the high depreciation and likely will not reinvest until the legal system forces that decision.

The new Macan EV will likely sweep up those who now can't justify the high ownership cost of the Taycan due to the lower cost of entry and as a consequence the Taycan popularity will fall off a cliff.

A hybrid option is the logical and more practical outcome but if the Porsche EV range enhancements are to be trusted / believed then that decision will become marginal.

100% electric is the future (we've come a long way to now walk away) and if respective governments stopped changing the rules (extending the lifeline to ICE vehicles) we would be much closer and stability to the market would return. UK infrastructure has been positively increased and whilst not perfect should address infrastructure anxiety for most.

 

[thecoloradokid]

I have been seeing the recent reviews on the new Turbo e-hybrid Cayenne with the updated interior and larger battery and honestly I am intrigued as well, so you are are not alone @Vim Schrotnock

My recent 850 mile/1360km run from Scottsdale to Denver took 16 and a half hours in the Taycan since it was cooler temp, crappy snowy weather conditions, and I had the big heavy mt. bike on the back, so efficiency was abysmal. I had absolutely no issues charging at the six Electrify America chargers I needed to use on the drive back, but if I had been in the Cayenne it would have taken me 10 hours.

That kind of knowledge hurts, a lot.

The flip side of that coin is vehicle looks. I still love walking into my garage and seeing my CT4S. I would not have that same feeling walking into the garage and seeing a Cayenne.

 

[andb]

I looked at the new Panamera Turbo with 670 HP and a hybrid motor with some 22kWh battery capacity, which should be good for 50-60 miles around town, and I really like the car.

Give it a try first, I have the previous model 2018 Turbo S hybrid and while its been faultless and its good for slow driving the EV mode and regen braking is not as refined as Taycan.

If you drive long distances often I don't see the point of the hybrid and if you drive short distances I don't see the point of gas car.

 

[kmcdonal]

It all comes down to the infrastructure. In my state they did a public/private partnership and installed about two dozen key charging locations. Once that was done, it really filled in the map and made owning an EV infinitely more practical. That said, I did have a charger at home.

 

[Fish Fingers]

I think it all comes down to individual circumstances......

I will stick with EVs, but we have just got the wife a BMW Phev.
She had a petrol car beforehand.

We wouldn't want 2 EVs, and we wouldn't want another ICE.
The new car fits the bill perfectly.

She does a lot of local trips and occasional long business trips.

PHEV certainly complements an EV for us and works well.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

I came from a Cayenne e-Hybrid...it was my gateway to full electric. I preferred it in battery-only mode, but only having 25% of its hybrid potential power to haul around the extra ICE weight, and the additional mechanical complexity, was decidedly sub-optimal. I couldn't now give up the seemingly effortless performance of a full EV. A big plus point for the Pana hybrid over a Taycan is that current Porsche finance quotes indicate 57% RV for the Pana after 3 years@10,000 mls p.a. versus 41% for the Taycan...which surprised and alarms me.
(EDIT- those numbers are for Pana Turbo Hybrid sedan v Taycan Turbo sedan)

 

[hrtlik]

You can buy new Taycan RWD with aerowheels. There are videos on youtube where hypermiling this thing does 450 miles with consumption around 21kwh/mile. But I understand your point from US perspective where chargers might be more sparse. I am from Czech Republic, Europe. As a country we are the worst from EU adopting EV cars and chargers are sparse in some places as well but it is getting better basically every month. Whenever I cross the borders to Germany or Austria, there is already much more chargers than petrol stations so in my opinion it is more convenient to drive EV than high performance ICE car which in the end has almost same mileage as my Taycan Turbo.

 

[W1NGE]

I came from a Cayenne e-Hybrid...it was my gateway to full electric. I preferred it in battery-only mode, but only having 25% of its hybrid potential power to haul around the extra ICE weight, and the additional mechanical complexity, was decidedly sub-optimal. I couldn't now give up the seemingly effortless performance of a full EV. A big plus point for the Pana hybrid over a Taycan is that current Porsche finance quotes indicate 57% RV for the Pana after 3 years@10,000 mls p.a. versus 41% for the Taycan...which surprised and alarms me.

Could be that I'm mis-reading the information but a 4S (metallic paint as the only option) - £95,955 purchase price - £46,789.40 balloon = 49%. Base Panamera (metallic paint as the only option) - £81,200 purchase price - £47,755.55 balloon = 58%. Same mileage, APR and term. Pana is a stronger contender but the Taycan some 10% behind (but not down at 41%).

High time Porsche UK (VWFS) dropped the extortionate interest rates never mind arbitrary low residuals! Profiteering / larceny in a non-transparent fashion.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

Could be that I'm mis-reading the information but a 4S (metallic paint as the only option) - £95,955 purchase price - £46,789.40 balloon = 49%. Base Panamera (metallic paint as the only option) - £81,200 purchase price - £47,755.55 balloon = 58%. Same mileage, APR and term. Pana is a stronger contender but the Taycan some 10% behind (but not down at 41%).

High time Porsche UK (VWFS) dropped the extortionate interest rates never mind arbitrary low residuals! Profiteering / larceny in a non-transparent fashion.

You're right about those numbers, but I was comparing the Pana Turbo Hybrid with the Taycan Turbo (both sedans, so hopefully the ST/CT variants do a bit better).
I'll edit my previous post to clarify.

 

[feye]

...it has a better ride than my Taycan, and is incredibly quiet, smooth, and has 500+ miles of range.

I'm wondering if anyone else here shares these views...

We just don't have access to the latest tech out there, because European manufactures were sleeping!

After my wife driving for a few months, getting 1000km (620 mi) range.

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