Performance Battery worth $5k?

[Kingske]

To put it perspective:
A Taycan Turbo S Cross Turismo with 21" wheels and performance plus battery has less range than a Taycan RWD sedan with 20" wheels and the performance battery.

So more powerful and heavier models need the extra big battery just to have a decent minimum range. The RWD compensates for that with higher efficiency.
To me it is a must have it the more powerful and heavier models, because there you go below the range you typically need to comfortably to a roadtrip (time between stops). But for the RWD it does not matter. The small battery is big enough for most people.
Like I noted in another post: if you do a roadtrip that is significantly longer than the range of the battery, you do not gain much time with the bigger battery. (about 10min in 8 hours). It all comes down to charging speed and efficiency. Not the capacity of the battery.

In reality it is 'only' 40km/25 miles extra. And only 0,1 second faster. So the difference is not that relevant anyway.

The real cost of these additional battery cells is around 2000 euro (including additional BMS and wiring costs) So it isn't a great deal either.

To me, it is not worth 6000 euro to save a few minutes per year on a roadtrip. But it depends on how much you will roadtrip and where (are there a lot of fast chargers or not). So I understand it can make sense for some customers.

It indeed makes less sense in densely populated Flanders where it seldom gets bitter cold than in large parts of the US with its vast distances and deep-freezing winters.

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[kort]

Do you have the specifics?

taycans use an 800v system, no other.

 

[JimBob]

taycans use an 800v system, no other.

So you think the table with Porsche's name on the top is wrong?

 

[atebit]

Practically, (at least for me), no. $5K isn’t worth an extra 25-ish miles.

From an optics perspective if you sell privately, a “informed ” buyer might give you a hard time about it.

 

[DANgerous]

All. Getting the Taycan 4S. Is the performance battery worth $5k? Seems like you only get another 22 miles of range. Horsepower?

As I think was already mentioned, the horsepower is moot because of the extra weight.

As for the range, the way I think of it is this: I can charge at home and never drive anywhere close to the range of ~315km in a day, and never leave the car somewhere else [with no possibility to charge] overnight. So the extra battery isn't needed.

If you don't have home charging capabilities and/or make frequently long journeys or expect to drive your range during the day, then perhaps it's worth it. If 5k is nothing to you, get it anyway as it will be more beneficial at resale than not.

 

[gnop1950]

So you think the table with Porsche's name on the top is wrong?

I don't think the table is wrong, just being misinterpreted. I still think we are conflating two entirely different things. So far as I can tell all Taycans are built on the same 800v platform. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28903284/porsche-taycan-ev-800-volt-charging-performance/ is a fairly simple explanation of why they chose 800v as their standard platform. Same as is used in the Audi's and other VW group EVs. GM will supposedly also use an 800v architecture for their future EVs. Tesla and I believe Ford use a 400v architecture.

The chart shows the difference between different size battery packs installed on the same 800v platform.

P.S. According to Porsche the 800v architecture saved them over 66lbs just in the wiring harness over using a 400v system.

 

[JimBob]

I agree. Until this discussion started no one was talking about the 600v pack. It was always about 800v. I was just trying to find out why Kort said the article was wrong and in particular if he thought the table was wrong as that was what our discussion was based on.

 

[Marcad80]

I did the analysis for the RwD version but I bet the 4S is the same.

Unfortunately, because Porsche torque limits the motor, the two versions are designed to perform exactly the same from 0-60 in launch mode. And the bad thing is because when your not in launch mode, the PB battery will out accelerate the PB+ from 0-60 because they torque limit both configurations the same for normal driving.

So in the end get the PB+ if you need the range, not because of addition HP. The PB will out accelerated the PB+ every time your not actually in launch mode.

Personally I’m very disappointed in Porsche for doing this…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/rwd-power-weight-vs-accel-anomoly.8837/

 

[Lansford]

Wow. This is not good. I think this moved me to NOT spending the extra cash....maybe will use to get RAS and upgrade to 21"

 

[THAICAN]

I live in Thailand and the cost here for the Performance Battery Plus is $10,499 / £7,827.

I passed!

 

[smohr33]

I did the analysis for the RwD version but I bet the 4S is the same.

Unfortunately, because Porsche torque limits the motor, the two versions are designed to perform exactly the same from 0-60 in launch mode. And the bad thing is because when your not in launch mode, the PB battery will out accelerate the PB+ from 0-60 because they torque limit both configurations the same for normal driving.

So in the end get the PB+ if you need the range, not because of addition HP. The PB will out accelerated the PB+ every time your not actually in launch mode.

Personally I’m very disappointed in Porsche for doing this…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/rwd-power-weight-vs-accel-anomoly.8837/

Still waiting to see draggy results or a time slip of a regular battery 4S to prove this theory.

 

[Marcad80]

Still waiting to see draggy results or a time slip of a regular battery 4S to prove this theory.

I haven’t heard of any actually track data.

My analysis is based on the torque limiting of both PB and PB+ to the same value of 250 ftlbs (normal mode). All else being the same (gearing, tires, etc) a heavier car will accelerate slower.

This is frustrating for me as I have ordered the PB+ because I need the additional range, and I was hoping for a little boost in accel, not a reduction…

 

[Lansford]

I haven’t heard of any actually track data.

My analysis is based on the torque limiting of both PB and PB+ to the same value of 250 ftlbs (normal mode). All else being the same (gearing, tires, etc) a heavier car will accelerate slower.

This is frustrating for me as I have ordered the PB+ because I need the additional range, and I was hoping for a little boost in accel, not a reduction…

Thank you. This is frustrating for me as well --- and I still have time to make the change. I was going for PB+ but now am leaning against it. The one argument everyone seems to agree on is not having this might hurt resale .....but I am not overly concerned with this. My current car is 340 hp (LOL) so I doubt I would even notice the difference between 520 and 540 hp (and even that seems negligible given the analysis stated above).

Perhaps I forgoe the PB+ and use the money for Rear Axle and maybe add in the 21 inch wheels. Thanks all.

 

[gnop1950]

I haven’t heard of any actually track data.

My analysis is based on the torque limiting of both PB and PB+ to the same value of 250 ftlbs (normal mode). All else being the same (gearing, tires, etc) a heavier car will accelerate slower.

This is frustrating for me as I have ordered the PB+ because I need the additional range, and I was hoping for a little boost in accel, not a reduction…

So perhaps one of our engineers can help me better understand the relationship between torque and horsepower. My understanding is that if you have two engines with the same torque but one with more horsepower, the one with more horsepower will be able to apply that torque in a shorter period of time(note: faster rotation?).

That explains why the 0-60 times would remain the same (it is too short a distance and the car is still overcoming the initial inertia). But, as the distance increases the car with greater horsepower will be able to maintain the torque where the lower horsepower car will start to fall off and that would explain the slightly faster time in the 1/4 mile.

For the RWD the non-launch mode POB has 240HP and the PB+ has 280HP with power-to-weight ratios of 11.4 and 10.1 respectively.

As to the 4S, the chart actually shows a difference in both horsepower and torque between the PB and PB+.

Some real-world tests with identical cars with the only difference being the PB/PB+ would be illuminating.

P.S. Here is the link to the spreadsheet if anyone is looking for it: https://newsroom.porsche.com/dam/jc...addc97a5/TaycanTechnicalSpecSheet20210304.pdf

 

[jasperp]

This is frustrating for me as I have ordered the PB+ because I need the additional range, and I was hoping for a little boost in accel, not a reduction…

I don't think you should worry about this.
You will totally not feel a 0.1 or 0.2 seconds difference. This is a 2% to 5% difference.
It is only in your head. Humans are not able to 'feel' such small amounts of time difference.
You'll have to go at least to +10%, which is about 0,5 seconds in this case, to make a noticeable difference.
If the car is too slow with a PB. It will be too slow with a PB+. If it is fast enough with a PB+. It will be fast enough a PB.
If the RWD with PB is too slow, you should buy the 4S. Not the PB+.

In the past I compared Tesla model X 70d, 90d, 100d. I could not see a noticeable difference in resale value. Of course the 100d was more expensive. But it was also more expensive to buy in the first place.
Typically, in absolute numbers, a cheaper car will devaluate less. Typically less options, means better resale value.
I don't think resale value is a good argument.

The only good reason for the PB+ is the range. And this is only a good argument if you live where there are not many fast chargers. Because if there are enough chargers, the PB is just fine.

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