PSCB Brakes

[Ross]

word of the day winner - super fun - brought a smile to my face!

Me too. Loved it
I am going to try to be more combobulated in my daily life!

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[RAHRCR]

A trigger warning should have been issued with any opening discussion on PSCBs ?.

For the CT, I didnt get them primarily because they only come in white or black which doesnt work with what I was aiming to achieve on my spec. I only plan to keep my Taycan until 2nd generation Taycan (or possibly Panamera is available). I dont want the hassle of selling a car with speciality brakes….as they are very costly in terms of replacement and I could see some additional complications from real or perceived replacement costs of the brakes being factored into the value of the car. Given that the theoretical extra stopping power is just that, its not worth the hassle just yet. I may revisit the PSCB if the color scheme works and the tech is settled enough to where a used car with these brakes is either considered a value-add or at least neutral. PS, there is more than just brake dust to clean on tires, rims and brake components….so buying solely for that purpose could leave you disappointed depending on your standard for cleanliness. I saw a picture of another poster‘s PSCB brakes with the wheels off where the white calipers were filthy to my eye. They may be easier to clean….sans brake dust, but they still required a good detailing. Under the right conditions, PSCB could be a nice middle of the road option for a daily driver like the Taycan. The brakes are interesting (and possibly an obvious choice for mission E wheels with white trim) but there is no magic here.

 

[Skilly]

this! a thousand times this - _ALL_ Porsche Brakes DO NOT SUCK and vastly exceed what ever driving scenarios you can consider for road legal situations and even extra-legal situations.

you need to be tracking your vehicle (a lot) before upgrading brakes on a Porsche makes an actual functional difference - and even then the difference is endurance on track, not stopping distance.

The _ONLY_ reason to upgrade brakes on a Porsche is for "track" scenarios - and even then Porsche's excellent brakes (even the base brakes) are more than sufficient unless a few things are true:

• you are a quick driver - one of the 10 fastest at any track day
• you're going to be on track for more than 25 min at a time
• you're running super sticky tires - beyond road legal

if you are an experience track rat, plan to run track session for more than 25 minutes, and upgrading your tires beyond street tire grip levels - well then yes you should consider "upgrading" Porsche's brakes for greater braking endurance - you upgrade brakes for endurance - not stopping distance - you upgrade your tires for stopping distance improvements (and because of better tires you then upgrade the brakes because of the higher demands)…

We get that you love your iron rotor brakes. I think its projecting to say that the only reason to upgrade brakes is for track scenarios. I think you mean to say that the only reason for YOU to upgrade is that. Besides, PSCBs don't claim performance improvements in braking dynamics. Moreover, I didn't read anybody claiming that in this thread, but I might have missed it...if it helps, they are just iron rotors with a Tungsten Carbide coating.

Porsche claims PSCBs provide 30% longer life and 90% reduction in dust. So, a little less than double the cost of iron rotors and longer life and no dust. Those are great reasons to click the option.

 

[Jhenson29]

Porsche claims PSCBs provide 30% longer life

Is that 30% based on wear? When does it get replaced relative to iron on a Taycan where the replacement schedule isn’t based on wear? (asking because I don’t know)

90% reduction in dust.

On 90% regen braking is diminishing returns though, no?

 

[Sidicks]

Porsche claims PSCBs provide 30% longer life and 90% reduction in dust. So, a little less than double the cost of iron rotors and longer life and no dust. Those are great reasons to click the option.

Iron rotors are free, so it’s not really ‘a little less than double the cost’!

 

[gnop1950]

Iron rotors are free, so it’s not really ‘a little less than double the cost’!

I believe he was referring to replacement cost which has been referenced a few times in the discussion

I chose them for the reasons I stated before, less dust, they are required if you order the Mission-E wheels, and they just look a lot better on the larger wheels. I believe you have to option at least the 20" wheels before you can even option the PSCBs.

 

[Skilly]

Is that 30% based on wear? When does it get replaced relative to iron on a Taycan where the replacement schedule isn’t based on wear? (asking because I don’t know)



On 90% regen braking is diminishing returns though, no?

give me a minute....

 

[Skilly]

Is that 30% based on wear? When does it get replaced relative to iron on a Taycan where the replacement schedule isn’t based on wear? (asking because I don’t know)



On 90% regen braking is diminishing returns though, no?

The quote from road & track is "they last 30% longer". Brakes don't wear out based on age; brake fluid does, but not brake hardware.

As for dust, the Taycan isn't capable of one pedal driving like a Tesla so I'm not even sure how you arent rear ending everything you come up behind.

It's such a gentle regen that Porsche didn't even feel the need to activate the brake light...even downshifting in a 3 pedal is more effective at stopping.

 

[Sidicks]

I believe he was referring to replacement cost which has been referenced a few times in the discussion

I chose them for the reasons I stated before, less dust, they are required if you order the Mission-E wheels, and they just look a lot better on the larger wheels. I believe you have to option at least the 20" wheels before you can even option the PSCBs.

Fair enough, but most people ordering new cars are not going to be needing new discs in the normal ownership period of these cars.

 

[Jhenson29]

The quote from road & track is "they last 30% longer". Brakes don't wear out based on age; brake fluid does, but not brake hardware.

The replacement schedule on the irons is 6 years IIRC, based on time and not wear. That’s why I’m asking.

As for dust, the Taycan isn't capable of one pedal driving like a Tesla so I'm not even sure how you arent rear ending everything you come up behind.

The brake pedal uses regen. The Taycan is capable of significantly more regen than a Tesla. Maybe don’t roll your eyes at me.

 

[Skilly]

The replacement schedule on the irons is 6 years IIRC, based on time and not wear. That’s why I’m asking.


The brake pedal uses regen. The Taycan is capable of significantly more regen than a Tesla. Maybe don’t roll your eyes at me.

I think Porsche is giving a best guess for where they need replacing but 6 years will really be coupled with the way you drive, not the age of the brakes themselves. Part of your annual inspection will almost always be a call out of pad depth. They will look for grooves and uneven wear on the rotors too, but those are pretty rare with regular driving.

As for rolling my eyes, just trying to keep it light but one pedal driving and applying the brake for regen aren't the same thing. Let me explain.

You mentioned less dust due to regen - that's not really a thing with the Taycan. For you to get regen (agree it is better in the Taycan), you are applying the brakes; in applying the brakes you would be creating dust. One pedal driving on the other hand is creating regen with the motors, not the brakes themselves.

So, the only way to get regen without dust would be one pedal driving. Which the Taycan doesn't have.

 

[Jhenson29]

I think Porsche is giving a best guess for where they need replacing

That wasn’t my understanding, but I don’t know for sure.

For you to get regen (agree it is better in the Taycan), you are applying the brakes; in applying the brakes you would be creating dust.

The brake pedal is not equal to brake pads on the Taycan and brake pads aren’t required for regen. The brake pedal can activate regen first and blend the pads in when more braking is requested.

 

[Jhenson29]

One pedal driving on the other hand is creating regen with the motors, not the brakes themselves.

Also, on this specifically, all regen is with the motors. That’s what regen is. It’s a controlled state of the motor where the load is overrunning the motor control and the motor is converting the load to electrical energy.

 

[Skilly]

Also, on this specifically, all regen is with the motors. That’s what regen is. It’s a controlled state of the motor where the load is overrunning the motor control and the motor is converting the load to electrical energy.

Are you forgetting what you said? These forums man...it's really hard to not get salty.

You said, "on 90% regen braking is diminishing returns though, no?" referring to my post that claimed a 90% reduction in brake dust (Porsche claim). People make mistakes in their writing; however you seem to claim that regen would require less braking so less dust. That is not the case and certainly not practical.

The regen is NOT a replacement for brakes; not even close. Regen in the context of the Taycan barely offers a braking (aka slowing) function, therefore it does not reduce the need for brakes, therefore it does not reduce brake DUST.

The only cars that would offer less braking and therefore less dust, are cars with a one pedal driving option hence my earlier comments. Or of course, selecting options such as PSCBs or PCCBs.

Now I am rolling my eyes...seriously, as I am writing this, I am rolling my eyes.

 

[gnop1950]

Are you forgetting what you said? These forums man...it's really hard to not get salty.

You said, "on 90% regen braking is diminishing returns though, no?" referring to my post that claimed a 90% reduction in brake dust (Porsche claim). People make mistakes in their writing; however you seem to claim that regen would require less braking so less dust. That is not the case and certainly not practical.

The regen is NOT a replacement for brakes; not even close. Regen in the context of the Taycan barely offers a braking (aka slowing) function, therefore it does not reduce the need for brakes, therefore it does not reduce brake DUST.

The only cars that would offer less braking and therefore less dust, are cars with a one pedal driving option hence my earlier comments. Or of course, selecting options such as PSCBs or PCCBs.

Now I am rolling my eyes...seriously, as I am writing this, I am rolling my eyes.

When you step on the brake pedal in a Taycan, unlike in a Tesla, braking is blended regen braking and, if needed, mechanical braking.

Here is a short clip by Bill Nye.

First, they wanted to recuperate as much energy as possible, and they believe they achieved that goal. Porsche engineers have said that as much as 90% of the Taycan's braking will, on average, be achieved through regenerative braking. The Taycan is capable of generating up to 265 kW into the battery pack. And the InsideEVs article on the Taycans regenerative braking.

So I'm not sure what the argument you all are having is all about. Since 90% of the braking with a Taycan is from regenerative braking it kind of makes sense that there would be a large, maybe even 90% decrease in brake dust since, compared to an ICE car, the actual mechanical brakes are used 90% less. However, having PSCBs reduces this even more to an almost minuscule level.

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