Rear Wheel Steering

[f1eng]

3. the powered covers mean no road rash down the front doors (which some have experienced) even if the minor aero benefit is lost…I know some have put DIY meshes in to prevent that but I assume that also negates/reduces any minor aero benefit (due to flow disruption).

There is good reason to expect dirt build up in the vent an a bit of extra dirt just behind it on the door but the extrapolation from that to blaming it from stone chips doesn't add up with the physics and my guess is it is just a worry a non-scientifically minded person came up with.

So yes to more dirt and less drag, no to the liklihood of stone chips.

Personally I wouldn't choose it if it was a zero cost option, but I am an engineer who spent a career making things a simple and aerodynamic as I could

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[TAYC4S]

There is good reason to expect dirt build up in the vent an a bit of extra dirt just behind it on the door but the extrapolation from that to blaming it from stone chips doesn't add up with the physics and my guess is it is just a worry a non-scientifically minded person came up with.

So yes to more dirt and less drag, no to the liklihood of stone chips.

Personally I wouldn't choose it if it was a zero cost option, but I am an engineer who spent a career making things a simple and aerodynamic as I could

Maybe - but tell that to the people that have reported it specifically along the dirt line at the vent exit.

If there is air flow via the front wheels with an open grill - I think you can associate instances of stones, or other small hard debris being kicked up and passed through - and you do not need to be an engineer to work that one out ;-)

 

[f1eng]

and you do not need to be an engineer to work that one out ;-)

Actually you probably do since it clearly isn't obvious to non-scientific minds but suit yourself believe wtf you like
Debris going fast enough to produce road rash comes from the tyre contact not the airflow.

 

[TAYC4S]

Actually you probably do since it clearly isn't obvious to non-scientific minds but suit yourself believe wtf you like
Debris going fast enough to produce road rash comes from the tyre contact not the airflow.

Do you not think we are saying the same thing? Tyres kicking up debris that then enters the vent and gets pulled through towards the same dirt line on vent exit?

 

[f1eng]

Do you not think we are saying the same thing? Tyres kicking up debris that then enters the vent and gets pulled through towards the same dirt line on vent exit?

No.
I have seen that speculation over and over again on forums. For the debris thrown up by the tyre to be going fast enough to cause paint damage a direct line of flight, or at most a tiny deflection, is needed. If you look at the side of the Taycan debris thrown up by the tyre would have to be going upwards at about 60 degrees to even get to the vent and not much debris ever gets thrown that steeply up and even if it was the only bit of bodywork it could hit is a tiny bit of the undercut of the door pressing part of the vent right at the front.

The reality is that there will be road dirt including tiny bits of stone picked up and carried into the vent and there will be the same sort of dirt build up there that there is in the wheelarch of all cars I have ever seen.

The idea of road rash due to the vent is an illogical extrapolation too far.

OTOH it is a gadget so I can see the appeal, just not for me because it is still just something else to go wrong, I have no idea how big the aero gain is but it could only be significant at speeds most people never use but it will be better...

 

[W1NGE]

No.
I have seen that speculation over and over again on forums. For the debris thrown up by the tyre to be going fast enough to cause paint damage a direct line of flight, or at most a tiny deflection, is needed. If you look at the side of the Taycan debris thrown up by the tyre would have to be going upwards at about 60 degrees to even get to the vent and not much debris ever gets thrown that steeply up and even if it was the only bit of bodywork it could hit is a tiny bit of the undercut of the door pressing part of the vent right at the front.

The reality is that there will be road dirt including tiny bits of stone picked up and carried into the vent and there will be the same sort of dirt build up there that there is in the wheelarch of all cars I have ever seen.

The idea of road rash due to the vent is an illogical extrapolation too far.

OTOH it is a gadget so I can see the appeal, just not for me because it is still just something else to go wrong, I have no idea how big the aero gain is but it could only be significant at speeds most people never use but it will be better...

I think some forum members ended up with chipped doors (driver's / front passenger door) which they're adamant was due to the lack of powered charge port doors and the "air curtain" being the culprit.

 

[f1eng]

I think some forum members ended up with chipped doors (driver's / front passenger door) which they're adamant was due to the lack of powered charge port doors and the "air curtain" being the culprit.

I know how adamant people are but it just isn't plausible.

I don't argue whether that have a stone chip or not but just look at it, if one has even the slightest glimmer of scientific aptitude it obviously can't come about because of a stone being thrown up through the vent.

It is clearly a false extrapolation IMO.

Lots of dirt in winter though which may make it harder to wash without scratching the paint???

I have already deleted a lot of technical information fact that doesn't match common beliefs, maybe it is pointless trying since it is a known phenomenon that once people have accepted a narrative pointing out it is wrong causes them to be more annoyed by the correction than the person who misled them in the first place.

Maybe I should stop.

 

[W1NGE]

I know how adamant people are but it just isn't plausible.

I don't argue whether that have a stone chip or not but just look at it, if one has even the slightest glimmer of scientific aptitude it obviously can't come about because of a stone being thrown up through the vent.

It is clearly a false extrapolation IMO.

Lots of dirt in winter though which may make it harder to wash without scratching the paint???

I have already deleted a lot of technical information fact that doesn't match common beliefs, maybe it is pointless trying since it is a known phenomenon that once people have accepted a narrative pointing out it is wrong causes them to be more annoyed by the correction than the person who misled them in the first place.

Maybe I should stop.

Please keep going!

 

[f1eng]

Please keep going!

I already deleted a LOT of facts in other threads

 

[Murph7355]

On RAS, it doesn't just have benefits at low speed I believe....doesn't it also steer in the same direction at high speeds? (I think Mitsubishi had this in the 90s).

 

[f1eng]

On RAS, it doesn't just have benefits at low speed I believe....doesn't it also steer in the same direction at high speeds? (I think Mitsubishi had this in the 90s).

Yes.
There haven several versions from different manufacturers over the years

 

[G7SUM]

Yes.
There haven several versions from different manufacturers over the years

Is this something you have added to your spec Frank? I am driving a Tesla Model 3 Performance right now while i wait for the GTS. It is awful in so many ways. The Taycan will be such a huge step in handling with or without the RWS.

 

[Fish Fingers]

I know how adamant people are but it just isn't plausible.

I don't argue whether that have a stone chip or not but just look at it, if one has even the slightest glimmer of scientific aptitude it obviously can't come about because of a stone being thrown up through the vent.

It is clearly a false extrapolation IMO.

Lots of dirt in winter though which may make it harder to wash without scratching the paint???

I have already deleted a lot of technical information fact that doesn't match common beliefs, maybe it is pointless trying since it is a known phenomenon that once people have accepted a narrative pointing out it is wrong causes them to be more annoyed by the correction than the person who misled them in the first place.

Maybe I should stop.

I would say the more dirt in winter is wrong too.
This is my car after a typical UK winter drive. Behind the vents is the cleanest part.

And 7k+ miles in, there isn't a single stone chip behind the (open) vents.

 

[Jhenson29]

OP, can you change title to “Rear Wheel Steering and Powered Charge Port Covers”? TIA

 

[W1NGE]

On RAS, it doesn't just have benefits at low speed I believe....doesn't it also steer in the same direction at high speeds? (I think Mitsubishi had this in the 90s).

Yes it does - detailed in the option description. Note that the angle of turn is quite subtle compared to other manufacturer's implementations (Mercedes).

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