Redshift Performance Intro - Taycan ECU Performance Packages

[AV7]

Taycan & e-tron GTs are the manufacturers first full fledged EVs on the market and they took a conservative approach (That's Germans for you ?) while leaving some headroom in terms of performance. We make use of that available reserve and make it available to the driver. The new generation Taycan will exceed the current generation model in terms of performance by a good margin which goes to show that they are pushing the boundaries with every generation.

What would the available reserve be on a RWD?

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[pedroleumjelly]

What would the available reserve be on a RWD?

RWD PB+ goes to 470HP with launch control. By default it's nerfed to 400 or so HP. So you'd get LC HP every time.

 

[redshift-performance]

Is this reverting going to be free of charge for one time only, or if for some warranty reason, one would like to revert back to factory settings and then redo the tune, is that another cost to me?

Hi

RWD PB+ goes to 470HP with launch control. By default it's nerfed to 400 or so HP. So you'd get LC HP every time.

We don't have measurements for RWD base Taycan's yet but we increase the peak overboost power by about 15-20% and make that available at all times, not just during launch control.

 

[AV7]

Hi

We don't have measurements for RWD base Taycan's yet but we increase the peak overboost power by about 15-20% and make that available at all times, not just during launch control.

So this would mean between about 547 and 571 hp? If so does this mean the 0-60 values can also be improved?

Can I ask the numbers posted for the 4S/GTS/Turbo are those actual tested values?

 

[DougFrisk]

I was wondering how you guys can unlock >800hp when the Turbo S only has max 700 something in launch control? Do the cars have that much reserve that Porsche is not making available?

Porsche and Audi have taken a "repeatable performance" stance in the tuning of the cars. If the battery is at optimal temperature and near full charge, the maximum amperage you can draw from it is higher than if it's cold and at a lower charge level.

Porsche decided they want the same performance if the battery is at 50 degrees F or 95 degrees F, or at 50% charge or 100% charge. The performance increase you get with a third party "tune" is going to vary depending on battery temperature and charge.

That's not including the detuning that's done for lower end models. A 4 Cross Turismo and a 4S Cross Turismo are identical from a battery, inverter, and motor perspective. The 4 is just artificially detuned below the 4S performance level. Which is why with this product if you use their performance tune, a 4 CT and a 4S CT (or GTS/Turbo/Turbo S) end up with identical performance.

So it's reserve that Porsche doesn't make available, but only in certain conditions. I suspect that with a cold battery and a low state of charge this upgrade won't be much faster than the base car because it's now battery limited rather than limited by the power mapping in the ECU.

 

[Redhot2474]

it won't be an issue until it's an issue - good luck…

I stand with you on this, my GTS is plenty fast

 

[JBMTTS]

I have a Turbo S and am having some GT envy, but my car is under warranty. I live in TX but fly to SF once a month and could bring my ECU…I’ll keep an eye out for more concrete numbers on the Turbo S upgrades. Interesting stuff though.

 

[whitex]

There’s a law in US called “The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act” which requires manufacturers to honor the original warranty unless they can prove that the aftermarket modification (either the parts or installation) was responsible for the failure that caused warranty repairs.

You are correct, however, it would not be hard for Porsche to argue that a premature battery failure was caused by drawing more power from the battery that Porsche OEM firmware allows it. So if your battery falls out, sure, they will not be able to argue it, but if your battery cells simply die in the same manner as of old age, Porsche will argue, with an excellent chance of success, that the additional load was the primary reason for the battery to fail early (before the 8 years). It's not hard to prove that overloading the battery beyond the limits set by the manufacturer (which this upgrade does) causes excess wear and tear. No different that trying to claim tire wear warranty after some heavy track days, the tire manufacturer will easily prove that extreme usage on the track can cause the tire to wear before the 40K miles or whatever their wear warranty is.

 

[whitex]

Curious as to how many of you regularly pin the accelerator to the floor and are thinking “man, I wish this thing would go faster…”. It has never happened to me and I have the poverty 4S model ?‍

Me. Every time I drive. Practically never from a stand-still, but 15-45mph, 15-70mph, 45-75mph regularly. Most of the time I feel "man, I wish thing thing would go faster". I drive Taycan Turbo CT. Full disclosure, I have been "spoiled" by driving Model S'es over the last decade. That was the only reason I waited longer to get a Taycan in the first place, could have had a 4S much sooner (Porsche did not build a lot of MY22 or MY23 Turbo CT's for the US market).

 

[whitex]

For the record, my 911 is tuned. I take it in for service still tuned (even though I could flash back to stock at home). If something happens, that's on me (although my warranty will be up in about 10 months anyway). However, I feel (possibly incorrectly) that the risk of my 911 engine blowing is lower than a battery or drivetrain issue on the Taycan. Note that I'm perfectly fine with the risk of failure for normal driving (and knowing my warranty is not at risk). But make it a $50k+ bet and I'm out.

I think this is the big one. Taycan is Porsche's first EV. Batteries have been known to fail prematurely. They are expensive. So the problem is, if your battery fails, and Porsche can show you have your car tuned, your warranty if void, as premature wear is expected from a tuned-up car.

That's not particularly relevant IMO. First, the dealer doesn't approve warranty. I believe PCNA does (at least for Porsche in the US). Second, the dealer may not have access to all of the data and diagnostics. And not all of it may be direct. It could be indirect. I can tell all kinds of things about issues or how a processing line was run that even other programmers at my company can't (let alone outside 3rd parties) because they don't know what to look for the way I do. Some random person (or even their very best technician) at some dealership not being able to detect it (based on what efforts even...btw?) is fueling the above issue mentioned. Again. No issue with tuning. But eyes open please.

You are absolutely correct. What a tech at a dealer can tell is not everything the manufacturer can tell. I work with auto manufacturers (not Porsche). They do collect telemetry. I know of one manufacturer who monitors whether someone has hacked free FOD features or perform tuning. You'd think they would want to revert the stolen features, or the tunes, but they don't - they just record which car has them, that's all, at least for now (or the last time I worked with them). Should there be a $60K warranty claim, this information is available to them. I suspect (purely my own speculation) that they actually like people tuning their cars beyond their OEM limits, because they can collect usage data, how well the parts age with excessive usage, will some parts (like a battery) fail prematurely, etc. all the while the customer is taking on the risk. If the battery fails prematurely, the manufacturer now knows that allowing a higher limit will likely make the battery fail after so many uses, but the customer is one who pays for the failed experiment because the manufacturer voids the warranty when the claim comes in. I'm almost surprised they don't make it an official program - manufacturer offers to tune your car to whatever numbers you want, manufacturer helps you tune any way you want in exchange for the usage data, but you sign that you are responsible for any failed parts due to the tune. Maybe they should refuse stupid tunes like allowing the Taycan to produce 1,500hp, which I'm willing to bet it would, for up to some number of seconds before something fails (most likely the battery, or the inverter, or the motor).

Does Porsche collect this type of telemetry, I don't know. Their software skills definitely seem lacking compared to some other manufacturers, but they do for example collect some telemetry which allows them to predict which heaters are likely to fail, so it's not like they collect nothing.

 

[whitex]

also tuning your Taycan and then selling it before the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty is up - and then having a future owner be denied a warranty claim when porsche does a deep dive on the ECU and finds out it's been messed with…

yeah that's going to be one messy lawsuit…

Perhaps not as bad as you think. A lot of cars are sold "As Is", meaning you have no clue whether the person before you abused the car or not. A lot of warranties don't cover off-road usage for example, but there is no legal obligation for you to track how much off-roading you've done. Same goes for track usage. Same goes for whether the owner was charging their EV to 100% daily. The only excessive usage I know that has a legal disclosure requirement is using the car as a taxi or a police cruiser. Heck, you have to disclose usage as a taxi, but not usage as a ride-share driver, so really, if buying a used car "as-is", you take on all the risks.

This brings us to a topic many have brought up in the recent past - how does a used car buyer evaluate battery health? This is an area manufacturers need to make some progress in, and soon, or else used EV market will tank. Personally I think cars will start tracking more detailed usage information, such as how many full throttle/LC launches you did and how long you spend with the accelerator at 100%, how often you charged to 100%, how often you charged using DC vs. AC charging, etc. Tesla for example already tracks this, with appropriate tools you can extract this information from the BMS, but there is no standardized way to get this information, and more importantly, no standardized way to interpret it. Tesla internally has used this information in the past to limit max produced power, or max charging power. There was a famous incident where P90D owner found out that after some number of launches, their cars suddenly lost a couple of hundred hp off the top, without any indication to the user. I heard recently that the latest Fisker actually has a open limit of 500 launches, but at least there you can see remaining launches on the screen, so the next buyer can tell if they are buying a car with 400 launches to go, or only 1.

 

[Murph7355]

what is the point of your commenting on this topic? All 6 or 19% of all the posts are yours and they are all negative and not instructive. Do you have a competing business you want to open or something?

It's an open discussion forum. It doesn't have to all be yeehah positive and opinions don't all have to align.

Mine was the second response on the thread asking about warranty. I knew the answer.

Tuners very rarely cover your back - no disrespect to RedShift here. It's a great mod. But there are big risks.

Being "undetectable" is pretty much the bang opposite of being covered If Porsche implemented "undetectable" stuff that gave them get out of jail free cards where our wallets are concerned, we'd be rightly upset.

 

[Caraholic]

I was all for this mode prior to ownership. However now after being an owner and going through a recent 50k+ service for the orange battery light, im out. I don’t have any worries the tune will cause a problem but I have almost no faith in Porsches battery design. These seem to be far to common of failures and I don’t want Porsche to have any ways to get out of the repair. Also think the turbo is underpowered and always wanting more. Those 10-35 and 35-75 sprints can always be more ferocious.

 

[Marcad80]

Hi

We don't have measurements for RWD base Taycan's yet but we increase the peak overboost power by about 15-20% and make that available at all times, not just during launch control.

You really should be focused on the RWD. This is where your market is.

It’s all of us that bought a Porsche thinking it was a high performance car and now hope the $40k KIA Ionic at the light next to us doesn’t want to get in front of us. Because our $100k Porsche will get blown away…. Really quite embarrassing for us and Porsche.

 

[Polar993]

We all know the risk of this mod and for most of us, the risk is just a little too high to justify.

I actually spoke with Mario from Redshift yesterday (nice guy!). I was asking if they know of a way to clone a spare ASG (ECU) to copy over the data from your original ASG. If that can be done, then you can modify the spare ASG with the performance tune, and basically have a "plug and play" performance solution. Use the modified ASG daily, and if the car needs to go in for service, switch back to your original unmodified ASG. Keep your original ASG in the trunk with a set of tools just in case you need to swap it back in an emergency situation, should your car ever need to be towed to the dealership.

Mario said the ASG cloning is not something they currently know how to do, but hopefully someone will figure it out. The dealership can do it, so hopefully one day that software will become available in the aftermarket world.

My Sport Turismo GTS is only 2 months old, so I'm not quite ready to risk losing my warranty for the power increase, but if a true plug and play solution gets developed....sign me up!

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