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Heating Failure

Donar

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Well he should get the improved one. I think he can considered himself lucky.
I hope so for him..
In The Netherlands we get the old one, my car is at the dealer at this moment. They hope they can replace the improved one in a recall somewhere 2024.
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McgR

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I hope so for him..
In The Netherlands we get the old one, my car is at the dealer at this moment. They hope they can replace the improved one in a recall somewhere 2024.
That is bad news. When did ter heater fail? When it was freezing last week or just now ? I just hope mine doesn’t fail while on winter sports. Last year it was just before and fixed in time.
 

Donar

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That is bad news. When did ter heater fail? When it was freezing last week or just now ? I just hope mine doesn’t fail while on winter sports. Last year it was just before and fixed in time.
Last week, after few days freezing.
At the dealer since last Friday, but there are more Taycans with same issue and they can only do 2-3 a day.
 

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So my Taycan got fixed. Unfortunately with the same crappy unit, so it basically can break again today.

Is there anything you can do to limit the risk of breaking it again? Maybe not put it too warm, or no pre heating?
 

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Is there anything you can do to limit the risk of breaking it again? Maybe not put it too warm, or no pre heating?
The failure mode has not been made public, so nobody outside of Porsche or the heater manufacturer knows what breaks it and how it breaks. If you could as you suggest, using it a lot makes it wear out faster, or it could be the opposite, using it less (setting to low heat) could cause higher to turn on less often causing it to have wider temperature swings (it has a chance to fully cool off before turning on again, which means higher swings). Even pre-heating might be bad for it (again, longer time on) or it might be good for it (the heater can preheat working less hard, vs. if you get into a cold car it has to go on full throttle).

If Porsche ever releases the failure mode and what causes it, then we can start speculating how to make a bad heater last longer. I just carry a 12V heater in my Taycan so that if the heater gives up its ghost, at least I can use the 12V heater to defog my front windshield to get to safety.
 


whitex

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Given the fact that Porsche has not figured out in 4-8 years (depending if you count from mission-E or first Taycan sold) how to make a heater which does not break, perhaps they should start installing 2 of them, so that the car can send a telemetry signal to Porsche mothership servers when one of them dies and the backup one is active, so that they can order a new heater for that car, then notify the owner to schedule a replacement. Wait, that would be improving customer experience, not their bottom line, nevermind, they are publicly traded. Also, their server backend is also a joke (I've experienced more outages in 10 months of ownership than 10 years in a Tesla). Their communications are even worse (I am still awaiting the OTA upgrade they send me a message about months ago).

Of course the obvious solution is to redesign the heater, but they are not Tesla, they are Porsche, they don't redesign parts in the middle of a production run. Each part must be sold for 4-12 years so that it makes a handsome profit, before money is spent on designing a new one.
 

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Of course the obvious solution is to redesign the heater, but they are not Tesla, they are Porsche, they don't redesign parts in the middle of a production run. Each part must be sold for 4-12 years so that it makes a handsome profit, before money is spent on designing a new one.
I agree with you about the fault rate of the car. Communications from Porsche is totally lacking. They never ever acknowledge any of the problems we encounter. And even if there was a lot of activities some time ago to update the PCM and prepare for OTA updates, I have not once seen any such OTA update in 3.5 years. Map updates yes, which I wish did not occur, but not PCM or others. There is so much time wasted at going to the Porsche Centers.

I have had my model 3 neally 5 years now and only once been at the Tesla Service Center. Brake fluid change, wiper change and tyre rotation!

But I do think that the heater design has been done by Webasto and I am sure that they are footing those recall bills. Would be interesting to see if there is ever any note from Webasto on this.

I for one have absolutely NO intention to look at the first generation of the Macan (completely new SW again) nor the upcoming 718 EV!
Not sure I even will consider Porsche for my next upgrade. At the moment they do not figure in the short list
 

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I have had my model 3 neally 5 years now and only once been at the Tesla Service Center. Brake fluid change, wiper change and tyre rotation!
IMO tire rotation and new wipers are Tesla profit upsell. They actually started adding those 2 to almost every service quote, even when I didn't ask for them (had to always message back for them to remove the two items, as I didn't ask for them). In the US you can swap your own wipers for much better quality silicone ones for 40% of what Tesla charges, they work better and they last longer. As for tire rotation, we had 4 Model S'es in 10 years, the tires always wore evenly (I check every 6 months all family cars, takes less than 5 minutes per car). I also question the "rotate tires ever X miles" recommendation as it makes no logical sense:
  • imagine your car wears tires unevenly front to back. This wasn't my experience, but lets assume every 10K miles the back tires have 0.5mm more wear
  • after 10K miles, the back tires have 0.5mm less tread, so you rotate
  • after another 10K miles since the rears started 0.5mm higher and used 0.5mm more, they are now even wear, why swap them again?!?!?
I was buying tires at an independent store by the way, same tire cheaper than Tesla, and free tire-rotations (which I never used) vs. Tesla charging $50. In the old days (before Model 3/Y floods) Tesla never recommended tire rotations. That came once Elon enacted his laser focus on profitability. They started adopting old dealer tricks, despite Elon's statements back in 2012-2015 that Tesla Service Centers will never become profit centers, he will always run them at break even.
 
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whitex

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But I do think that the heater design has been done by Webasto and I am sure that they are footing those recall bills. Would be interesting to see if there is ever any note from Webasto on this.
Do you really think they've been paying for months of loaners while people wait for new heaters, and in the 4 years this has been happening they haven't redesigned the heater to be more reliable? I suspect they foot the bill for new heaters (at cost, since they make them), but not for replacing them or loaner cars, so at Taycan volumes it's just cheaper to provide free replacements than to redesign.
 

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You are probably correct, only part replacements. But still they should rectify their design since it eats into their profit. I also think they have redesigned the heater, without success, since the article number did change at some stage. Still clearly substandard though.

And it is not always we get a loaner here in France.
 

whitex

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You are probably correct, only part replacements. But still they should rectify their design since it eats into their profit. I also think they have redesigned the heater, without success, since the article number did change at some stage. Still clearly substandard though.

And it is not always we get a loaner here in France.
IMO they did some very minor updates to attempt to mitigate the issue, but likely small changes to the hardware (if any) and a firmware upgrade (such as derating it, whether the max heat or heat gradient, who knows). A complete redesign and certification in all different countries is probably way more expensive than just giving away new heaters - remember that the Taycan does not have huge volumes, and they Webasto gets them at cost. So if an incremental volume heater landed cost is $100 (remember, the cost to Porsche is much higher as it includes amortization of engineering and certification costs), it's hard for them to justify spending millions to redesign, recertify. If they have to replace one heater for every single Taycan ever produced (after warranty they get paid for it), that's a $10M dollar budget, which may be nothing compared to the cost to redesign/recertify in all different countries.
 

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So my Taycan got fixed. Unfortunately with the same crappy unit, so it basically can break again today.

Is there anything you can do to limit the risk of breaking it again? Maybe not put it too warm, or no pre heating?
Same situation. I am pre conditioning to 25 degr Celsius for an hour before driving home in the evening. I hope it fails now if it has to fail and not during holidays. Temperatures are not very low now.
 

McgR

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Maybe interesting. Are owners living in colder climate like Scandinavia and Canada still driving around with their first heater. Some must be good.
 
 








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