NEW Updated 2025 Taycan Reviews Are Here!

[WasserGKuehlt]

given that about an hour is a reasonable time budget for any CCS1 stop.

Well, that’s a bit of an exaggeration; in a year+ of charging/several dozen sessions, the number of times I spent more than 30min at one location can be counted on one hand - usually because of queues/downed stations. A decent charge is ~50kWh, and even at an average speed of 100kW that’s half an hour.

I don’t think the low fuel costs are the explanation since EV adoption has far exceeded CCS1 infrastructure.
Instead, any company contemplating investing in a functional CCS1 network is potentially undermined by the $2b that VAG has to spend (on indifferently maintained chargers that are also distributed among undersized stations) and $5b in 2021 NEVI funding that will finally start to be spent in earnest this year.
Many other regions have been undermined by other government programs. For example, looking at the PlugShare map for Vermont, why doesn’t a private network cover the interstates that are by skiers and other visitors coming from Boston and the greater NYC area? I suspect the answer is largely that the state is now having contractors build out a network with 2019 and 2020 funding, distributed among 17 stations, each with two 50kW chargers.

You are making @Murph7355's point; it's cheap enough to drive an ICE, so while EV adoption is decent, it's also not widespread. If there were more paying customers, companies would fight to provide services. No one - not the gov't, nor VAG - is blocking anyone else from buying/leasing land and plopping down a charging station.

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[Jonathan S.]

My hour time budget for a charge is accounting for add'l driving time, waiting time, connection time, and finally the actual charging.
I often end up at under an hour in the Northeast, but if I don't budget a full hour, then I'm frequently delayed at my destination.

I agree of course that potential market entrants are not being blocked from investing their own money.
But they are highly discouraged from how EA is funded via $2b in VAG consent decree money and how many other companies are funded via $7.5b (i.e., $5b "NEVI Formula Program" + $2.5b "discretionary grant program") in NEVI money plus various pre-NEVI state programs.
Why invest your own money when competitors (or maybe you too) are receiving $9.5b in more money?

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

My hour time budget for a charge is accounting for add'l driving time, waiting time, connection time, and finally the actual charging.
I often end up at under an hour in the Northeast, but if I don't budget a full hour, then I'm frequently delayed at my destination.

Good point on detours. My calculation did include, however, everything related to the charging stop.

I agree of course that potential market entrants are not being blocked from investing their own money.
But they are highly discouraged from how EA is funded via $2b in VAG consent decree money and how many other companies are funded via $7.5b (i.e., $5b "NEVI Formula Program" + $2.5b "discretionary grant program") in NEVI money plus various pre-NEVI state programs.
Why invest your own money when competitors (or maybe you too) are receiving $9.5b in more money?

Staying on point , what/how EA is funded is still irrelevant: evidently they are not building stations in your area, and neither is anyone else. So, while I agree with you that "enterprises" don't seem motivated to invest, it doesn't negate the point that cheap(er) gas price is ultimately the root cause. EVs are not compelling at scale.

 

[Jonathan S.]

[...]Staying on point , what/how EA is funded is still irrelevant: evidently they are not building stations in your area, and neither is anyone else. So, while I agree with you that "enterprises" don't seem motivated to invest, it doesn't negate the point that cheap(er) gas price is ultimately the root cause. EVs are not compelling at scale.

There was a point to all this?

Seriously though, I think the CCS1 market is the way it is in large part because a major competitor (anyone want to estimate what % of CCS1 chargers >= 150kW are EA?) is not driven by profit-maximizing motives, but instead is simply required to spend $2b.

Combine that with other potential competitors putting their own investment plans on hold in anticipation of $7.5b in free money, and you have ... exactly what we have.

Whether EVs make sense for particular drivers is another issue (albeit closely related of course).
But can you think of any market other than CCS1 with such widespread dissatisfaction?

And when you see a typical EA station of four chargers, one or two of which are broken, the others derated, with a long line, and in that very same parking lot is a station with 12 or 16 chargers, all working, capable of 250kW (albeit shared), compatible with CCS1 via an adapter ... well, that not only shows that properly functioning CCS1 charging is feasible, but also that all of this will soon be related to an interesting business history case.

By contrast, sure, we might complain about, say air travel.
But anyone who wants a better experience can just upgrade from economy.
(So personally, I never complain about a cramped seat, because it's my own fault!)

Speaking of paying more, the St J VT Ford dealer installed a ChargePoint duo back in summer '22.
Reliably 80s if you're solo, but can be in the 30s if you're second to arrive.
(The power split is definitely not dynamically balanced!)
Nothing else even remotely nearby.
(Except of course for eight 250kW Tesla chargers just a couple miles away...)
So can have long waits.
(Even setting aside the recent eclipse waits.)

But a little over a week ago, another car dealership, about half-a-mile away, installed two 180kW Blink chargers.
Pricing was normal at first, but then ... maybe this was just eclipse surge pricing, but apparently it's still:

• $1.89/kWh
• $1.89/hr
• $5.00 flat fee

So let's say you charge for 50kWh at an average 150kW, that's about two bucks per kWh!
Which would actually be totally worth it if that means the chargers will always be maintained, and waiting for an available charger will be either brief or entirely nonexistent.

Alternatively, let's see you need only 10kWh, at the same 150kW avg, that's $2.40/kWh, for a total of ~$24.
If $0.50/kWh is considered the actual electricity cost incl. demand chargers plus amortized capital cost, maintenance, etc., then that's $5 for the charge and $19 for the convenience factor of not having to wait elsewhere.
Looking back on many of my charging sessions when I needed only ~10kWh yet went through quite an experience for it, sure, I'd pay $19 to avoid that.

But I have no idea if this is the start of a trend ... or just what was supposed to be an eclipse surge ... or a pricing mistake ... or the dealership really doesn't want the public charging there ... or ...

 

[Scandinavian]

There was a point to all this?

Seriously though, I think the CCS1 market is the way it is in large part because a major competitor (anyone want to estimate what % of CCS1 chargers >= 150kW are EA?) is not driven by profit-maximizing motives, but instead is simply required to spend $2b.

Combine that with other potential competitors putting their own investment plans on hold in anticipation of $7.5b in free money, and you have ... exactly what we have.

Whether EVs make sense for particular drivers is another issue (albeit closely related of course).
But can you think of any market other than CCS1 with such widespread dissatisfaction?

And when you see a typical EA station of four chargers, one or two of which are broken, the others derated, with a long line, and in that very same parking lot is a station with 12 or 16 chargers, all working, capable of 250kW (albeit shared), compatible with CCS1 via an adapter ... well, that not only shows that properly functioning CCS1 charging is feasible, but also that all of this will soon be related to an interesting business history case.

By contrast, sure, we might complain about, say air travel.
But anyone who wants a better experience can just upgrade from economy.
(So personally, I never complain about a cramped seat, because it's my own fault!)

Speaking of paying more, the St J VT Ford dealer installed a ChargePoint duo back in summer '22.
Reliably 80s if you're solo, but can be in the 30s if you're second to arrive.
(The power split is definitely not dynamically balanced!)
Nothing else even remotely nearby.
(Except of course for eight 250kW Tesla chargers just a couple miles away...)
So can have long waits.
(Even setting aside the recent eclipse waits.)

But a little over a week ago, another car dealership, about half-a-mile away, installed two 180kW Blink chargers.
Pricing was normal at first, but then ... maybe this was just eclipse surge pricing, but apparently it's still:

• $1.89/kWh
• $1.89/hr
• $5.00 flat fee

So let's say you charge for 50kWh at an average 150kW, that's about two bucks per kWh!
Which would actually be totally worth it if that means the chargers will always be maintained, and waiting for an available charger will be either brief or entirely nonexistent.

Alternatively, let's see you need only 10kWh, at the same 150kW avg, that's $2.40/kWh, for a total of ~$24.
If $0.50/kWh is considered the actual electricity cost incl. demand chargers plus amortized capital cost, maintenance, etc., then that's $5 for the charge and $19 for the convenience factor of not having to wait elsewhere.
Looking back on many of my charging sessions when I needed only ~10kWh yet went through quite an experience for it, sure, I'd pay $19 to avoid that.

But I have no idea if this is the start of a trend ... or just what was supposed to be an eclipse surge ... or a pricing mistake ... or the dealership really doesn't want the public charging there ... or ...

I just wanted to see what the latest comments here on page 3 had added on the topic of New updated 2025 Taycan reviews, and find yet another rant about EA and charging in the US. Why not keep that subject in one place and keep the topic of the OP here?

All this EA rant is embarrassing to read about. Get behind the issue and solve the issue with the companies behind the brand. Complaining here will not solve anything.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Does complaining here about anything solve anything?
Although the charging is relevant to these reviews for the repeated claim that the 2025 Taycan will charge more quickly. All of North America probably has only several stations where the 2025 Taycan will consistently charge more quickly.
(Plus VAG is the majority owner of both EA and Porsche.)

 

[irrelevant]

To be fair, how many 270KW-capable dispensers were available anywhere when the Taycan first hit the streets?

Things will improve over time, and the V2 Taycan will be well-positioned to benefit.

Or Porsche could do what Chevy and Hyundai are doing...pushing out EVs with 55-100 KW peak charging rates. Gotta love those Bolts drawn like a moth to the flame of those "hyperfast" 350KW dispensers.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I just wanted to see what the latest comments here on page 3 had added on the topic of New updated 2025 Taycan reviews, and find yet another rant about EA and charging in the US. Why not keep that subject in one place and keep the topic of the OP here?

We're working our way, in order, through: infrastructure, build codes, range, errors, depreciation and, eventually, mods. We're just doing that on the "new" thread so as not to confuse it with the issues of the old Taycan.

This is the way.

 

[Scandinavian]

To be fair, how many 270KW-capable dispensers were available anywhere when the Taycan first hit the streets?

They certainly were available AND WORKING here in Europe! In 2021 road trip between the Italian border to the U.K. and to north of Sweden, ca 3000 km, NO PROBLEMS! On Ionity mainly!

 

[Scandinavian]

Does complaining here about anything solve anything?
Although the charging is relevant to these reviews for the repeated claim that the 2025 Taycan will charge more quickly. All of North America probably has only several stations where the 2025 Taycan will consistently charge more quickly.
(Plus VAG is the majority owner of both EA and Porsche.)

You are correct! The North of America is the problem! No problemo to get that performance in Europe at all.

 

[Jonathan S.]

We're working our way, in order, through: infrastructure, build codes, range, errors, depreciation and, eventually, mods. We're just doing that on the "new" thread so as not to confuse it with the issues of the old Taycan.

This is the way.

And the rear view camera.
Also the center console lid.

 

[Tooney]

I just wanted to see what the latest comments here on page 3 had added on the topic of New updated 2025 Taycan reviews, and find yet another rant about EA and charging in the US. Why not keep that subject in one place and keep the topic of the OP here?

All this EA rant is embarrassing to read about. Get behind the issue and solve the issue with the companies behind the brand. Complaining here will not solve anything.

Does complaining here about anything solve anything?

+1

Yes, EA and DC charging infrastructure in NA are embarrassing.
Porsche increasing potential DC charging rates for Taycans in NA is worthless.
And Porsche/VW AG management in Germany (which owns EA) doesn't know that, doesn't care, or both.
That's embarrassing, too.

The fact that many new model Taycan reviews for NA readers/viewers totally ignore this demonstrates fallacies of these fan-boy reviews.
Such forum comments about NA charging add balance and missing info to the reviews.

 

[Fun TC Driving]

EA is getting better. Stopped off at a new 6 charger, all 350 KW, station this past Wednesday in middle of Oregon. It was clean, located next to Starbucks, restaurant 200” away, and even had a dog walking area. Pulled in, plugged in, and it quickly charger at the max 95 KW my iX can receive.

 

[007]

Visited Porsche Krakow today and saw/touched/caressed the new 2025 Taycan for the first time. Gotta say, I’m not so impressed with the physical changes. The mission e wheels now suck… that side wall is way too big. The front has lost its exoticness with the new sharp angles. The rear fake vents are tacky. And the price is over the top. Maybe it’s the color, but it doesn’t feel that it’s special.

 

[d00d]

I was taught to only say nice things, so the turbonite window trim would look nice on a lighter car with the matching aero wheel highlights, and ...that's it.

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