Part 3: The Quest for the Perfect Tune

[prj]

Would it be "better" in terms of performance to drive for example 20 inch rims rather than the 22 inch Vossen I drive currently?

Not a significant enough difference that you are going to feel anything on 2.5ton car.

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[Avantgarde]

Not a significant enough difference that you are going to feel anything on 2.5ton car.

 

[Rik_CT4s]

I am not sure how I can provide any better data than I have, sorry.

Understand that, it is very clear. And I also will go for a tune, just waiting it out a little bit that's all. The tuning has its limits, simple as that, and either accept or don't do it. You are open and clear about it, very much appreciated.

 

[Avantgarde]

At 100kmh+ aero drag + rolling resistance takes over weight as the main factor impacting acceleration. In other words 10% change in drag matters more than 10% change in weight at those speeds.

 

[prj]

At 100kmh+ aero drag + rolling resistance takes over weight as the main factor impacting acceleration. On in other words 10% change in drag matters more than 10% change in weight at those speeds.

Sure,

At 100kmh+ aero drag + rolling resistance takes over weight as the main factor impacting acceleration. In other words 10% change in drag matters more than 10% change in weight at those speeds.

Sure, and at lower speeds the weight makes a huge difference. Point remains the same you're not going to have a noticeable difference from swapping the wheels. It's not a turbocharged E30 we're talking about here

 

[Rik_CT4s]

It should improve things due to 2 angles:
1-22 Inch set up must have a bigger total tire circumference than factory set up for Taycan, given the side walls with 21 inch already seem to be at the limit. Don't know what tire specs you have but you can calculate the total difference in circumference vs stock and if it is, say 3%, going back to stock circumference (does not matter 20 or 21 inch, given both would have same circumference) should give you 3% more wheel torque and proportionate acceleration benefits (while your real top speed will come down by the same proportion)
2-20 inch set up typically comes in with narrower tires which should improve aero and friction by about high single digit %s. This will make a difference at high speed. So all in all you should have a material benefit.

I drive currently Hankooks Evo3
305 25 R22 behind and 265 30 R22 in front.
Before Sport Contact 6 on 22 inch in the same size. Perhaps strange to some but I like the Hankooks better!

 

[lcarron]

Yes, I am just back from doing that.

The test was done with 85% SoC. Same road, same direction. Slope a tiny bit different because with stock it takes 60 meters more to reach the 200km/h.
Tests done in Sport Plus in both cases, flooring the car at 70kph.

Here is the stock:

And here the tuned:

With 100% SoC it can run 6.8x (I got that before, but I wanted to show the difference in exactly the same conditions back to back). Or if I go a bit downhill... but that's cheating.
Keep in mind, my car is by far the heaviest one - it is a Turbo S CT with absolutely every option ticked, even the rear seat entertainment. This also shows in the stock time though.

Hello,


Based on your website Mapev, the 100-200km for the 4s PB+ is listed at 6.6 secs but your TS is 6.97 based on Draggy. It does not match well unless I'm reading the wrong place.

 

[prj]

Agreed. No comparison in any way, just to share that I do like power/torque, but the driving experience overall is just better in the Taycan. The Taycan did better on the ring than the RS5 as well, 2 very different cars. Just miss the power between say 80-200kmu.

This is the test subject here:

 

[prj]

Hello,


Based on your website Mapev, the 100-200km for the 4s PB+ is listed at 6.6 secs but your TS is 6.97 based on Draggy. It does not match well unless I'm reading the wrong place.

I used the number that I got on the e-tron GT (because that is the same as a Taycan 4S). No doubt, if you take a Taycan 4S CT with full options (especially offroad package), it will also be a lot slower. And also note the inclination.
You always have to compare before and after. Yes, my car makes 70 hp more, but it's also 150kg heavier, and has much worse Aero due to the Offroad package. Also I ran it on a flat, and the e-tron GT was slightly downhill, plus the e-tron GT was at 95% SoC.

Another thing is, if you carefully look at the power graph posted above, you can see that the power drops the longer you hold the throttle down. So at 200km/h it's making around 700PS. This is the same as the e-tron GT is making.

Here is the run in question from Dragy:

I did not make the number up or anything. 100-200 the 4S and e-tron GT are not much slower after tuning. I am sure if I tested a comparable e-tron GT RS in the same conditions, I would have hit around 6.1-6.2s.

Or even just a Taycan Turbo/Turbo S sedan...
The CT with offroad package at high speed is significantly slower, and it also gets the worst range out of all the cars. I get like 330-340km max.

 

[Avantgarde]

I drive currently Hankooks Evo3
305 25 R22 behind and 265 30 R22 in front.
Before Sport Contact 6 on 22 inch in the same size. Perhaps strange to some but I like the Hankooks better!

OK you don't seem to have a circumference issue (I've seen some others put larger & wider tires on 22s). However you will still have a drag/rolling resistance benefit. Let me do a back of the envelope math for you. The drag difference between 20inch turbo aeros and and 21 inch Mission e's were estimated to be 0.02-0.03 (0.22CD vs 0.25CD, was Turbo, and Turbo S respectively. The differences were driven by wheels and a standard power charge door, which blocked the airflow behind tires, but the latter should be a smaller contributor). Your Vossens will be worse than Mission Es (Lets assume difference covers the power charge door). So It is safe to assume 10-12% drag benefit. Phisical rolling resistance will be more like 8-10% based on the tire widths. Lets call total drag gain to be 10% between the two.

Your 100-200 stock time is 8.26 sec. Assume during the run 60% of that is aero/resistance driven (rest 40% being weight). In reality drag benefit will exponentially increase towards 200kmh but "on average" 60% is fair enough. 8.26x60%x10%(improvement in drag)= 0.5sec. I really think you will shave half a second from your 100-200 if you switch to a 20inch setup with good aero. (20 inch turbo aeros both look good and efficient IMO btw)

 

[Rik_CT4s]

OK you don't seem to have a circumference issue (I've seen some others put larger & wider tires on 22s). However you will still have a drag/rolling resistance benefit. Let me do a back of the envelope math for you. The drag difference between 20inch turbo aeros and and 21 inch Mission e's were estimated to be 0.02-0.03 (0.22CD vs 0.25CD, was Turbo, and Turbo S respectively. The differences were driven by wheels and a standard power charge door, which blocked the airflow behind tires, but the latter should be a smaller contributor). Your Vossens will be worse than Mission Es (Lets assume difference covers the power charge door). So It is safe to assume 10-12% drag benefit. Phisical rolling resistance will be more like 8-10% based on the tire widths. Lets call total drag gain to be 10% between the two.

Your 100-200 stock time is 8.26 sec. Assume during the run 60% of that is aero/resistance driven (rest 40% being weight). In reality drag benefit will exponentially increase towards 200kmh but "on average" 60% is fair enough. 8.26x60%x10%(improvement in drag)= 0.5sec. I really think you will shave half a second from your 100-200 if you switch to a 20inch setup with good aero. (20 inch turbo aeros both look good and efficient IMO btw)

Thank you. I also have the offroad package as mentioned by prj.

I still have a set sitting in the garage. 20 inch Turbo S set with Michelin 4 tires, 21 inch cross turismo wheels (currently used as winter set) and currently driving 22 inch summer. I like the looks of the Vossen, but for comfort (and speed) the 20 inch setup makes total sense.

 

[Mr.Smith]

The tuned turbo has the same 100-200 as the turbo s? Correct?

i have seen some guys with the tuned etron gt rs(equal to turbo) to have 5.9 seconds 100-200kph! How is that possible?

5.9 100-200 was me. More like 6.1 is more consistent.
Weather is better in California for the optimal runs.

With my PS4S I have now and if I lower my tire pressure, I should get a better 0-100.

 

[lcarron]

I used the number that I got on the e-tron GT (because that is the same as a Taycan 4S). No doubt, if you take a Taycan 4S CT with full options (especially offroad package), it will also be a lot slower. And also note the inclination.
You always have to compare before and after. Yes, my car makes 70 hp more, but it's also 150kg heavier, and has much worse Aero due to the Offroad package. Also I ran it on a flat, and the e-tron GT was slightly downhill, plus the e-tron GT was at 95% SoC.

Another thing is, if you carefully look at the power graph posted above, you can see that the power drops the longer you hold the throttle down. So at 200km/h it's making around 700PS. This is the same as the e-tron GT is making.

Here is the run in question from Dragy:

I did not make the number up or anything. 100-200 the 4S and e-tron GT are not much slower after tuning. I am sure if I tested a comparable e-tron GT RS in the same conditions, I would have hit around 6.1-6.2s.

Or even just a Taycan Turbo/Turbo S sedan...
The CT with offroad package at high speed is significantly slower, and it also gets the worst range out of all the cars. I get like 330-340km max.

Ok. Then it was:

• 95% SOC compared to 85%
• Slightly downhill
• Better aerodynamics of the Etron GT vs the CT
• Weight less
• The power difference is only from 730 to 800 PS. (But the torque difference is huge)

I believe I can buy that. ?

 

[prj]

Ok. Then it was:

• 95% SOC compared to 85%
• Slightly downhill
• Better aerodynamics of the Etron GT vs the CT
• Weight less
• The power difference is only from 730 to 800 PS. (But the torque difference is huge)

I believe I can buy that. ?

Additionally the 730 to 800 is only at 100kph or so, very quick on the TS the power drops below that.

The best would be to compare e-tron sedan/Taycan sedan and with similar spec.

The Cross Turismo with the Offroad package is really by far the slowest of the bunch because the bodykit and the shape completely kills the aero. After 160km/h you can really feel it starting to drop off, and you can really see that on the results as well.

Takes 1.74 seconds to go from 100-130, and 3 seconds to go from 160-190.
An increase of 72%.

Compare that to the e-tron GT I posted, which took 1.42s from 100-130 and 2.53s from 160-190.
An increase of just 56%.

This shows how much worse the aero is on CT with Offroad pack. But it looks too cool not to have it, and the car is higher in default mode, so entry is easier. The solution is probably to get the J1.2 with the Active Ride.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Don't get me wrong....the Taycan TS is a fast car, I am just missing that extra thrill. Perhaps it sounds weird, but the power / torque is something you get used to quickly.
Hence, I hope a tune would give that extra thrill.

You will get that missing thrill because it has the kick needed when not in LC, but I got numb to it after a while.

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