"smart Level 2" = 75 miles of charge per hour?

[Jonathan S.]

Could a municipality be contemplating 19.2kW public chargers?
And that would still work out to 75 miles of charge per hour only for Lucid.

https://thereminder.com/local-news/...-be-part-of-statewide-ev-charging-initiative/

“Most people who drive EVs learn to not drive it to empty. They basically charge opportunistically whenever they have a chance. So, we are looking at what’s called a Level 2 charger. We’re waiting for the engineering on this, but depending on the power available at the locations, we can get what’s called a smart Level 2. It can work at a higher power, and it would charge roughly 75 miles per hour. This is an estimate because all the vehicles are slightly different, but it basically adds 75 miles in one hour, which is pretty good,” said Weil.

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[Flying ace]

My view is always to tier the pricing based on charging speed, even for A/C. Europe does this with HPCs. Got time to loiter? Pay less.

Public AC charging is such a crap shoot with the amount of free units out there. They're either always occupied or abandonware.

 

[W1NGE]

Could a municipality be contemplating 19.2kW public chargers?
And that would still work out to 75 miles of charge per hour only for Lucid.

https://thereminder.com/local-news/...-be-part-of-statewide-ev-charging-initiative/

“Most people who drive EVs learn to not drive it to empty. They basically charge opportunistically whenever they have a chance. So, we are looking at what’s called a Level 2 charger. We’re waiting for the engineering on this, but depending on the power available at the locations, we can get what’s called a smart Level 2. It can work at a higher power, and it would charge roughly 75 miles per hour. This is an estimate because all the vehicles are slightly different, but it basically adds 75 miles in one hour, which is pretty good,” said Weil.

L2 22kW (19.6) EVSEs have been around for many years in UK / EU.

22kW chargers are no longer an option on the Taycan or Macan EV where both are limited to 11kW so to my mind this 'revelation ' is of limited value unless I'm misunderstanding something.

 

[Gino]

L2 22kW (19.6) EVSEs have been around for many years in UK / EU.

22kW chargers are no longer an option on the Taycan or Macan EV where both are limited to 11kW so to my mind this 'revelation ' is of limited value unless I'm misunderstanding something.

I guess I don’t feel so bad I can only charge my Taycan at home at 11kW since my detached garage only supports 120V charging.
Luckily charging at 120V 6.5kW is fast enough for me since the Taycan is not used for long trips but once or twice a year. We have several other vehicles for long trips which are better suited for where we’re going (skiing, camping, etc).
It does tell me there is a big whole in the charging options Porsche offers so that it is less likely I will buy a second EV which I could use for longer more frequent trips if the only two options are 11kW & DC fast charging away from home. Most hotels & businesses don’t have DC fast charging so I would be less likely to buy another EV from Porsche if the current options are my only options.

 

[W1NGE]

I guess I don’t feel so bad I can only charge my Taycan at home at 11kW since my detached garage only supports 120V charging.
Luckily charging at 120V 6.5kW is fast enough for me since the Taycan is not used for long trips but once or twice a year. We have several other vehicles for long trips which are better suited for where we’re going (skiing, camping, etc).
It does tell me there is a big whole in the charging options Porsche offers so that it is less likely I will buy a second EV which I could use for longer more frequent trips if the only two options are 11kW & DC fast charging away from home. Most hotels & businesses don’t have DC fast charging so I would be less likely to buy another EV from Porsche if the current options are my only options.

The 22kW (19.6lW for US) option was expensive, problematic (search the forum) and failure rate high. Withdrawn on th J1.1 Taycan and never featured on the J1.2 or Macan EV. No reason given but I suspect it had a low take up and most people rely on DC public charging if not charging at home where a max of 11kW (supply dependent) is ample for most.

 

[Jonathan S.]

L2 22kW (19.6) EVSEs have been around for many years in UK / EU.

22kW chargers are no longer an option on the Taycan or Macan EV where both are limited to 11kW so to my mind this 'revelation ' is of limited value unless I'm misunderstanding something.

Yes, 19.2kW has been around awhile in the U.S. -- Tesla even used to support it.
But it hasn't caught on at all.
Which makes this municipality's reference to a "smart L2" that can add 75 miles of charge per hour is rather puzzling (even aside from the considerable cost for breakers and conduit).
The city contact is away until Monday, so perhaps I'll find out there -- to be continued...

 

[Jonathan S.]

And about a month and a half later ...
... ghosted on my inquiry by the city's Director of Climate Action & Project Administration.
(Maybe once our daughter leaves for college, I'll move from MA to NH. Just have to convince my wife to move also, but she loves all her landscaping work.)

 

[Gino]

The 22kW (19.6lW for US) option was expensive, problematic (search the forum) and failure rate high. Withdrawn on th J1.1 Taycan and never featured on the J1.2 or Macan EV. No reason given but I suspect it had a low take up and most people rely on DC public charging if not charging at home where a max of 11kW (supply dependent) is ample for most.

My initial post was incorrect. I stated I charge at 11KW or 6.5KW with my Porsche charger but since I don’t have 240V and can’t run 240V in my garage I can only charge at 120V 10A or 15A which gives me 1.2KW & 1.5KW charging rates. It is very slow but we only drive the Tesla around town no more than 150 miles/week and our other 2 vehicles get used for long trips and carrying more than 2 people or lots of stuff.
Between the 3 vehicles we drive no more than 15K miles a year since we travel a lot and put most of the miles on rental cars.
I do wish I had 240V in my garage but I gave up trying to convince my HOA to let me dig up the common area once I realized I actually didn’t need fast charging in my garage. If/when I do need fast charging it will be on a rare long roadtrip where I would want to charge fast along the way.
I’m semi retired but do the majority of my business internationally and in the DC area with very little in Southern California so every car I own is semi-retired but I miss my Boxster convertible so I may add another Boxster or 911 convertible in the near future to the stable of semi-retired vehicles so I put even less miles on them. I guess I subscribe to “variety is the spice of life”. An Airstream Sprinter RV, Hummer H2, Taycan and hopefully a convertible again soon! The nice thing in Southern California cars don’t age. So easy to keep them perfect. My wife & I are the only ones getting old…

 

[whitex]

And about a month and a half later ...
... ghosted on my inquiry by the city's Director of Climate Action & Project Administration.

You tried to apply logic to government hype. Government officials, especially with "director" titles, don't appreciate such inquiries - they see it as you challenging their authority.

 

[daveo4EV]

Could a municipality be contemplating 19.2kW public chargers?
And that would still work out to 75 miles of charge per hour only for Lucid.

https://thereminder.com/local-news/...-be-part-of-statewide-ev-charging-initiative/

“Most people who drive EVs learn to not drive it to empty. They basically charge opportunistically whenever they have a chance. So, we are looking at what’s called a Level 2 charger. We’re waiting for the engineering on this, but depending on the power available at the locations, we can get what’s called a smart Level 2. It can work at a higher power, and it would charge roughly 75 miles per hour. This is an estimate because all the vehicles are slightly different, but it basically adds 75 miles in one hour, which is pretty good,” said Weil.

19.2 kW @ 3 miles/kWh = 19.2 * 3 = 57 miles range give or take

however most EV's max out at 11 kW or less - although some can do 19.2 kW (Taycan gen 1 being one of them if they had the option) - however most of the EV's that can do 19.2 kW don't get 3 miles/kWh (hummer's for example)…

so yeah - this would mostly be a waste - the municipality would be better served putting in a 25-50 kW DC fast charger which most EV's could benefit from…vs. only those that support 80 amp L2 charging.

maybe take Tesla up on their white box install - and install 2-4 Tesla Superchargers with the City's govt. seal as the branding.

if anyone asked me (not that they ever will) 19.2 kW L2 charging is not an investment in the future.

 

[Gino]

19.2 kW @ 3 miles/kWh = 19.2 * 3 = 57 miles range give or take

however most EV's max out at 11 kW or less - although some can do 19.2 kW (Taycan gen 1 being one of them if they had the option) - however most of the EV's that can do 19.2 kW don't get 3 miles/kWh (hummer's for example)…

so yeah - this would mostly be a waste - the municipality would be better served putting in a 25-50 kW DC fast charger which most EV's could benefit from…vs. only those that support 80 amp L2 charging.

maybe take Tesla up on their white box install - and install 2-4 Tesla Superchargers with the City's govt. seal as the branding.

if anyone asked me (not that they ever will) 19.2 kW L2 charging is not an investment in the future.

Municipal charging with DC is the only way to go since throughput would be so much higher. Installing units which get occupied for several hours is a huge waste. I’ve occasionally charged at malls at 11KW which only gives me roughly 30 miles in the 2 hour max window you’re allowed but they get swamped early and you’re lucky to be there when one opens up even though there are 8-10 of them.
In several malls they only had 6.5KW chargers which gives you 30 miles in 2 hours which is anemic. DC charging at 50KW for an hour max and then pay through the nose after an hour so people move along would be more effective & efficient.

 

[whitex]

19.2 kW @ 3 miles/kWh = 19.2 * 3 = 57 miles range give or take

however most EV's max out at 11 kW or less - although some can do 19.2 kW (Taycan gen 1 being one of them if they had the option) - however most of the EV's that can do 19.2 kW don't get 3 miles/kWh (hummer's for example)…

You forgot the typical ~90% charging efficiency for EV's, so take 10% off all of the above numbers. 19.2kW EVSE will charge at ~ 17.3kW, usually less as the supply voltage can drop (and often does) while the current is capped at 80A. Then there are the 3-phase installations with 208V (often found at businesses), which even at 80A will max out at ~15kW (208V*80A*90%).

 

[whitex]

so yeah - this would mostly be a waste - the municipality would be better served putting in a 25-50 kW DC fast charger which most EV's could benefit from…vs. only those that support 80 amp L2 charging.

maybe take Tesla up on their white box install - and install 2-4 Tesla Superchargers with the City's govt. seal as the branding.

While true for EV owners, I think the issue often is the availability of power at government buildings. It's why you often saw two to four 6kW EVSEs at 2-3 story office buildings. 4x6kW is 24kW, 4x50kW is 250kW, likely too much power for the building to handle at all times.

 

[Jonathan S.]

The answer turns out to be that the municipality was repeating marketing misinformation from Autel for a 19.2kW unit:
https://autelenergy.com/global/product/ac-ultra
"It can generate 75 miles of range in one hour"

Sure, just like my Taycan "can" drive almost 40 miles with zero 0 net kWh consumption (from the summit of Mt Washington to my place in Twin Mtn NH).
I suspect the list of EV models that can make better use of a 19.2kW unit (as opposed to 11kW) and have the miles/kWh efficiency to gain 75 miles of range in one hour is limited to the Lucid Air.
Yet this municipality was on the very of falling for this, thinking that these expensive units would be better than an ordinary hard-wired 48a unit.

Autel has some other whoppers:

https://autelenergy.us/pages/autel-energy-full-product-lineup

A 50a/12kW unit (yes, an utterly pointless bump up from the usual 48a/11kW) is "9X faster than a traditional AC home charger" (since apparently the "traditional" approach is to plug your EVSE into an ordinary household outlet?).


https://driveelectric.gov/news/deerfield-ma-cfi-charging-station

Their DCFC chargers managed to bump up the price tag of this four-plug CFI-funded station to $2.46m, so ~3x the typical four-plug NEVI award (going by https://evstates.org/awards-dashboard/).
Each Autel charger is supposedly 640kW (yes, 640, not 64), with 320kW per plug if shared, but I haven't received from the low/mid triple digits.
And one of the chargers was broken for about a month this past winter.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/02/08/business/ev-chargers-mass-pike/

Last year Autel upgraded the DCFC EV charging at Mass Pike rest stops.
With 60kW chargers.
More specifically, one 60kW charger per rest stop.
With two plugs each.
For a 40kW/20kW split.
Perhaps Autel can't do anything about the utility hookup, but still ... yeah.

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