[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[Tooney]

Porsche Penske exits Le Mans race effort as automaker's woes deepen -Detroit News

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[daveo4EV]

So is Porsche claiming that there is no market for EVs, while also claiming that Chinese customer choose EV’s over Porsche’s?

that's my read…

Porsche is confusing their lack of EV's sales with overall trends - there is a small market for $230k Taycan's (or more - the price of my ideal Taycan GTS build) - Porsche has no EV game - their "sauce" doesn't work and their prices are outrageous - even their 911's are becoming too expensive…

they are suffering an existential crisis - through a confluence of factors - some under their control (pricing) and more out of their control…

 

[Zcd1]

that's my read…

Porsche is confusing their lack of EV's sales with overall trends - there is a small market for $230k Taycan's (or more - the price of my ideal Taycan GTS build) - Porsche has no EV game - their "sauce" doesn't work and their prices are outrageous - even their 911's are becoming too expensive…

they are suffering an existential crisis - through a confluence of factors - some under their control (pricing) and more out of their control…

Porsche seems to think that it can emulate Ferrari's M.O., but IMO it sells WAY too many cars for that to be feasible.

Thoughts?

 

[daveo4EV]

Porsche seems to think that it can emulate Ferrari's M.O., but IMO it sells WAY too many cars for that to be feasible.

Thoughts?

100% agree - they are lost - and raising prices on their products isn't going to pan out the way they think it is - annual production for Ferrari is a bad week for Porsche…

and they have lost the plot on pricing - and there is no Magic they have with EV's…

I learned this recently driving a Macan 4 loaner - there is no reason for different trim levels…other than acceleration all the cars have the same character - which is not true of the 911 with their infinitely variable character due to mechanical tweaks…

Porsche is in a lot of trouble.

 

[whitex]

that's my read…

Porsche is confusing their lack of EV's sales with overall trends - there is a small market for $230k Taycan's (or more - the price of my ideal Taycan GTS build) - Porsche has no EV game - their "sauce" doesn't work and their prices are outrageous - even their 911's are becoming too expensive…

they are suffering an existential crisis - through a confluence of factors - some under their control (pricing) and more out of their control…

Yea, when Taycan first came out, the base trim was slightly below the top Model S Performance, it made some sense as a premium performance car (IIRC correctly, you could get a base Taycan for ~$80K after the tax rebate). Since then they’ve been increasing prices (even before tariffs), while their competition is dropping prices on competing products. Their management must have been hung over in class on the day they covered demand vs price curves, or they wouldn’t be dumbfounded by the fact that the higher they raise the prices, the less cars they sell. What I don't get is how they were making good profit margins with the cheaper Taycans 5 years ago, but their margins have tanked after prices went up! Is there some fixed cost, regardless of volume, which is killing their margins because their volumes dropped, so each car now shoulders much larger portion of this fixed cost? Could it be that this fixed cost is the compensation of the executives? Or are their volumes so low that the property taxes on the factory are it?

 

[Scandinavian]

Warranty and endless recall costs?

 

[Jasper4S]

Because of the EV hype with tax reductions, the 2035 plans, and supply chain issues like the war in Ukraine, demand for the Taycan was through the roof. From the launch, the market and demand were anything but normal. Porsche just got lucky and sold way more than anyone expected. I mean, who in their right mind would pay that kind of money for a luxury EV that doesn’t have the best tech and isn’t even the fastest.

If you were looking for a four-door Porsche, you often ended up at a Taycan because of all the rumors about an all new Panamera and Macan EV, which would have been riskier choices. The Cayenne was never an alternative; these are two very different cars for very different needs. Now the market has settled and Taycan sales have returned to what we can assume is normal.

 

[Tooney]

Why Porsche Chose the Past: Inside the Emotional Economics of Engine Noise and Nostalgia

The sound of a Porsche at full throttle is as much a part of its brand as the crest on the hood. The flat-six engine’s rasping echo through a tunnel is not just a mechanical event. It is a declaration of identity. That has always been Porsche’s gift. It builds cars that connect physical sensation to a sense of mastery. But in September 2025, the company that once promised an all-electric future decided to turn back toward combustion. After years of saying that electricity was the road ahead, Porsche has delayed its next electric sports cars, reconfigured its flagship SUV to run on petrol, and admitted that its Taycan successor is on indefinite hold. The official phrase for this pivot was “strategic realignment.” The real meaning was simpler. Porsche had found that its customers, and perhaps its own leadership, were not ready to give up the noise.

Porsche’s current buyers are not a mystery. The average owner is an older, affluent white man, mostly in North America and Europe, especially Germany, who came of age when cars were loud, temperamental, and gloriously mechanical. The overlap with Harley-Davidson’s customer base is striking. Both brands sell nostalgia disguised as performance. For this group, noise and vibration are not side effects. If no one can hear their status symbols, do they actually accrue any status? A quiet machine feels untrustworthy, or worse, dull. The emotional equation that sound equals power has been reinforced over decades of driving and advertising. When a Taycan glides away in silence, many of these customers feel that something essential is missing. Their status symbols have lost their soundtrack.

These people grew up on tales of the poorly handling original 911s that required significant skill to corner at anything higher than parking lot speeds, and often think heel and toe driving is the epitome of footwork, ignoring Fred Astaire, who they also remember. Of course, most of them don’t get anywhere near the performance out of their cars that they could, or even imagine that they do. Most of them have never had a track day, just imagined what it would be like. Most of them have never been to Nurburgring, just watched videos of it. Porsche is a brand that allows its primary customers to imagine that they are race car drivers, just as Nike’s customers imagine being a pro basketball player and Under Armour’s customers imagine that they are frequently in locker rooms with lots of big, buff, sweaty pro football players.
. . .
The deeper story is not about batteries or engines. It is about the sociology of innovation. Technological transitions rarely fail because the new tool is worse. They fail because the users cannot imagine themselves in the new world. Porsche’s clientele sees cars as expressions of personal ability. Electric drivetrains flatten that hierarchy. They make power accessible to anyone who can press a pedal. That democratization feels like loss to people who define value through scarcity of skill. When identity and technology collide, identity usually wins..
. . .
For now, Porsche has chosen to stay where it is most comfortable. The sound of its engines will continue to echo in tunnels for a few more years. Investors may see stable returns, and increasingly old customers will hear the confirmation they crave. But each echo fades a little faster. The world is moving toward quieter power, and silence, in this case, is not weakness. It is evolution. Porsche can join it later, but every year it waits, the future becomes a little less willing to wait for them. Trying to please shareholders today will likely lead to brand and market collapse later, and the 8% stock drop means they failed in the present as well.

 

[daveo4EV]

Why Porsche Chose the Past: Inside the Emotional Economics of Engine Noise and Nostalgia

The sound of a Porsche at full throttle is as much a part of its brand as the crest on the hood. The flat-six engine’s rasping echo through a tunnel is not just a mechanical event. It is a declaration of identity. That has always been Porsche’s gift. It builds cars that connect physical sensation to a sense of mastery. But in September 2025, the company that once promised an all-electric future decided to turn back toward combustion. After years of saying that electricity was the road ahead, Porsche has delayed its next electric sports cars, reconfigured its flagship SUV to run on petrol, and admitted that its Taycan successor is on indefinite hold. The official phrase for this pivot was “strategic realignment.” The real meaning was simpler. Porsche had found that its customers, and perhaps its own leadership, were not ready to give up the noise.

Porsche’s current buyers are not a mystery. The average owner is an older, affluent white man, mostly in North America and Europe, especially Germany, who came of age when cars were loud, temperamental, and gloriously mechanical. The overlap with Harley-Davidson’s customer base is striking. Both brands sell nostalgia disguised as performance. For this group, noise and vibration are not side effects. If no one can hear their status symbols, do they actually accrue any status? A quiet machine feels untrustworthy, or worse, dull. The emotional equation that sound equals power has been reinforced over decades of driving and advertising. When a Taycan glides away in silence, many of these customers feel that something essential is missing. Their status symbols have lost their soundtrack.

These people grew up on tales of the poorly handling original 911s that required significant skill to corner at anything higher than parking lot speeds, and often think heel and toe driving is the epitome of footwork, ignoring Fred Astaire, who they also remember. Of course, most of them don’t get anywhere near the performance out of their cars that they could, or even imagine that they do. Most of them have never had a track day, just imagined what it would be like. Most of them have never been to Nurburgring, just watched videos of it. Porsche is a brand that allows its primary customers to imagine that they are race car drivers, just as Nike’s customers imagine being a pro basketball player and Under Armour’s customers imagine that they are frequently in locker rooms with lots of big, buff, sweaty pro football players.
. . .
The deeper story is not about batteries or engines. It is about the sociology of innovation. Technological transitions rarely fail because the new tool is worse. They fail because the users cannot imagine themselves in the new world. Porsche’s clientele sees cars as expressions of personal ability. Electric drivetrains flatten that hierarchy. They make power accessible to anyone who can press a pedal. That democratization feels like loss to people who define value through scarcity of skill. When identity and technology collide, identity usually wins..
. . .
For now, Porsche has chosen to stay where it is most comfortable. The sound of its engines will continue to echo in tunnels for a few more years. Investors may see stable returns, and increasingly old customers will hear the confirmation they crave. But each echo fades a little faster. The world is moving toward quieter power, and silence, in this case, is not weakness. It is evolution. Porsche can join it later, but every year it waits, the future becomes a little less willing to wait for them. Trying to please shareholders today will likely lead to brand and market collapse later, and the 8% stock drop means they failed in the present as well.

loved that article - THANK YOU FOR POSTING!!

Porsche is lost in an EV world…

 

[Der-Schwabe]

loved that article - THANK YOU FOR POSTING!!

Porsche is lost in an EV world…

Not sure I agree that Porsche has turned it's back on EV development to focus on ICE development. I find it telling that is is withdrawing from the WEC but continues to invest in Formula E (that is certainly not the draw to audience numbers as Formula 1) but notably for "further development" of it's " all-electric production vehicles". This seems to have been conveniently overlooked in the "glass half-empty" view that permeates this thread...just saying.

"Porsche focuses on IMSA and Formula E

10/07/2025

(...)

In Formula E, Porsche is gaining valuable insights for its electric production sports cars. “In this competitive environment, we will continue to drive forward the development of high-performance vehicles,” says Dr. Michael Steiner, Member of the Executive Board for Development at Porsche AG.

The fourth generation of Formula E cars will be introduced for Season 13 (2026/27) and will bring further development freedom. This will enable Porsche to achieve an even steeper learning curve for its all-electric production vehicles."

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/...he-formula-e-imsa-factory-projects-40746.html

 

[Jasper4S]

Thanks @Der-Schwabe for some common sense. There so many assumptions in this thread.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Would not surprise me if the 963 WEC program was costing more money than all the other racing Porsche does combined. While I do not like the withdrawal, I do have to wonder if not winning LeMans has a lot to do with this. Hopefully Penske will field some cars at Lemans in 2026.

 

[Murph7355]

100% agree - they are lost - and raising prices on their products isn't going to pan out the way they think it is - annual production for Ferrari is a bad week for Porsche…

and they have lost the plot on pricing - and there is no Magic they have with EV's…

I learned this recently driving a Macan 4 loaner - there is no reason for different trim levels…other than acceleration all the cars have the same character - which is not true of the 911 with their infinitely variable character due to mechanical tweaks…

Porsche is in a lot of trouble.

Even Ferrari are struggling "doing a Ferrari". Now to do with EVs for them...IMO they aren't building beautiful cars at the moment. This is their issue.

That and they also went nuts on prices.

Porsche could inject different character into the different trim levels if they wanted to. An engine isn't the only way to do that (and isn't the engine very similar across models in the later 911s anyway).

They have rested on their laurels, made some crap decisions with modern tech and stuck to their old ways on pricing. They need a serious rethink, which they are clearly doing...I'm just not convinced going backwards is the right move.

 

[Murph7355]

They might also consider not sending so many "we have a great offer just for you, call this number to make an appointment" comms to save some cash.

I've had three SMS, 2x missed calls and now a glossy card affair through the post.

None of which gave any indication of what "special" is.

Just put some example numbers in to hook me and quit with the spam FFS. Otherwise all I'm thinking is that your numbers aren't special at all. And I don't have time to book an appointment to tell me my new "upgrade" will cost me £70k.

 

[Jasper4S]

They might also consider not sending so many "we have a great offer just for you, call this number to make an appointment" comms to save some cash.

I've had three SMS, 2x missed calls and now a glossy card affair through the post.

None of which gave any indication of what "special" is.

Just put some example numbers in to hook me and quit with the spam FFS. Otherwise all I'm thinking is that your numbers aren't special at all. And I don't have time to book an appointment to tell me my new "upgrade" will cost me £70k.

The numbers will be special..



For them.

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