Redshift vs MapEV

[td8]

The gearshift is at ~130km/h. Majority of the difference is above 60km/h. It accelerates 25% faster after that. So if your 100-200 time is e.g. 14 seconds, you would expect around 11.5 seconds with the tune.

I don't think I have actual Dragy measurements from a RWD, but we've done quite a few and people have been satisfied with the result.

Maybe this graph is more interesting:

I'd say the difference is fairly significant at higher RPM. It shifts at 125-130km/h with the tune, which is around 15500 rpm on the chart, and after the shift is complete you're right at 8000 rpm again, where you have the extra power.

Depends really how you drive it, if you just drive it around town, then there's not much to it, but out of town there is significantly more performance for overtaking and merging onto the highway.

Just depends on your usage I guess

Hi Dmitri,

My apology, but I must of misinterpret the graph that you posted. I was under the assumption that porche pretty maxed out the rwd motor from the factory. Do you have any real world acceleration time between stock and tune rwd PB+ cars? Thanks

Hi Dmitri @prj , is the torque figure here the torque at launch or normal ? Do you have the graphs of torque max (mapev), torque launch and torque non launch ?

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[prj]

Hi Dmitri @prj , is the torque figure here the torque at launch or normal ? Do you have the graphs of torque max (mapev), torque launch and torque non launch ?

There is no "non-launch" torque with MapEV. That's the beauty of it, with our solution the launch control logic always becomes active when you go full throttle in the car.

Even if you are already moving or at high speed, you get the extra launch torque for 2.5 seconds on J1.1 and extra torque/power on J1.2 for 5 seconds whenever you floor the throttle. If you lift off and floor it again, then you get this boost again... and again....

The factory launch control itself works exactly as before, and our custom logic gets disabled if that's active.

Without this modification it is impossible to increase the performance until 40km/h on most models, and e.g. on the RWD PB+ no difference even up to 60km/h.
Nobody else so far has figured out how to do this. What everyone else does is just make the torque limiter the same for launch control and normal mode, but that doesn't put the BMS and the motors into launch mode.

 

[babylou66]

I believe moving the shift point to a higher speed (130 kph/80 mph) for the rear power train unit will have a negative effect on range at speeds between 100 kph/62 mph to 130 kph/80 mph. This range so happens to be exactly where I would be for any significant road trip.

 

[prj]

I believe moving the shift point to a higher speed (130 kph/80 mph) for the rear power train unit will have a negative effect on range at speeds between 100 kph/62 mph to 130 kph/80 mph. This range so happens to be exactly where I would be for any significant road trip.

The shift point is not a single value of course. It's a map based on the target load.
The only shift points changed in the tune are those at full throttle, and on the smaller motor you want those to be as high as it will let you.

This has exactly zero effect on normal driving, range and so on.

 

[babylou66]

The shift point is not a single value of course. It's a map based on the target load.
The only shift points changed in the tune are those at full throttle, and on the smaller motor you want those to be as high as it will let you.

This has exactly zero effect on normal driving, range and so on.

Perfect.

 

[69Mach390]

I believe moving the shift point to a higher speed (130 kph/80 mph) for the rear power train unit will have a negative effect on range at speeds between 100 kph/62 mph to 130 kph/80 mph. This range so happens to be exactly where I would be for any significant road trip.

Keep in mind that in “range mode” and “normal mode,” you never use first gear unless you floor it at lower speeds since you always start in 2nd gear.

This is true before and after the tune.

 

[td8]

Sorry I wasn’t clear in my question. The « torque » values in the graph, are those torque from launch control or normal driving.

 

[td8]

Sorry I wasn’t clear in my question. The « torque » values in the graph, are those torque from launch control or normal driving.

Sorry, just re-read your posts, all answers in part 3 ! insane how under tuned the 4 is…

 

[69Mach390]

Sorry I wasn’t clear in my question. The « torque » values in the graph, are those torque from launch control or normal driving.

Probably easier to just read the details for each particular car on their website- https://www.mapev.net/

It compares the increases in both modes.

 

[AutoX]

Any speculation on why porsche use launch control mode and not have full power available on demand?

 

[69Mach390]

Any speculation on why porsche use launch control mode and not have full power available on demand?

Conservative safety measures.

Same reason every vehicle ever made can be tuned for more power.

Almost every EV has something similar built in. It’s so you can live in 125 degree heat and floor it all the time as well as 40 below.

That and so you can run track days and multiple laps without overheating.

For 1.2, for $$.

So they can charge more for higher trims despite having the same hardware.

 

[prj]

Any speculation on why porsche use launch control mode and not have full power available on demand?

Probably consistency, so you don't feel the power dropping out with lower SoC.
The J1.1 battery was pretty bad for that - I mean, it was okay for 2019, but not for today.

If you look at J1.2, then the cars with push to pass have the launch power usually available all the time.

Taycan 4:
J1.1 475 PS Launch / 380 PS normal
J1.2 435 PS Launch / 435 PS normal

4S:
J1.1 571 PS Launch / 489 PS normal
J1.1 598 PS Launch / 598 Boost/ 517 PS normal - basically you have 598 all the time.

GTS:
J1.1 598 PS Launch / 510 PS normal
J1.2 700 PS Launch / 700 PS boost / 605 PS normal - essentially 700 all the time.

Turbo:
J1.1 680 PS Launch / 620 PS normal
J1.2 884 PS Launch / 802 PS boost / 707 PS normal

Turbo S:
J1.1 800 PS Launch / 620 PS normal
J1.2 952 PS Launch / 870 PS boost / 775 PS normal

You can see how on the pre-facelift due to the battery they topped out at 620 PS, and even with that on the Turbo and Turbo S when it goes below 40% you really feel it dropping out in power.

Whereas on the facelift they are happy to give you (hidden behind sport chrono) a LOT more power all the time. That's because the pre-facelift battery can do a maximum of 800 PS in ideal conditions, while the facelift can do well over 1200 - it's a monster.
This also means that it does way better at lower SoC. A Turbo S makes it's normal power on the facelift even at 20% SoC, while the the pre-facelift Turbo S is below 500 PS at that point.

That's why they locked the J1.1 power behind launch control. On J1.2 since it wasn't necessary anymore they monetized the gain by adding a paid button to have the power all the time.

 

[prj]

Almost every EV has something similar built in. It’s so you can live in 125 degree heat and floor it all the time as well as 40 below.

I disagree that every EV has that built in. Tesla is running everything maxed out on the performance models and it loses power really fast with SoC or as the battery heats up.

There are basically two ways to do it - one is to limit the power to have the same consistent, but lower power all the time, and the other way is to give the maximum safe power all the time.

In the first case you always have the same power, in the other case you have higher power when the conditions permit.

Number 2 is not less safe in any way, it's just a design choice. In drag racing you always want number 2 (except bracket classes), and in circuit racing you generally want number 1.

 

[n3ophyte]

Any speculation on why porsche use launch control mode and not have full power available on demand?

It was dreamt up by Porsche’s department of useless gimmicks. The same department that brought you push to pass and fake gear shifts

 

[69Mach390]

I disagree that every EV has that built in. Tesla is running everything maxed out on the performance models and it loses power really fast with SoC or as the battery heats up.

There are basically two ways to do it - one is to limit the power to have the same consistent, but lower power all the time, and the other way is to give the maximum safe power all the time.

In the first case you always have the same power, in the other case you have higher power when the conditions permit.

Number 2 is not less safe in any way, it's just a design choice. In drag racing you always want number 2, and in circuit racing you generally want number 1.

That’s why I said “almost.”

Tesla is the exception. Almost everyone else is limited in some way (launch control, time limited, or just tuned less than the motors can handle).

My 21 Mustang Mach E GTPE was limited in all kinds of ways.

Ford admitted they purposefully put a super conservative tune because of lack of testing and lack of sensors.

It was limited to 480 hp, despite having 580hp motors.

It only made full power for 5 seconds from a launch, and only above 90% charge and if the external temps and battery temps were ideal. It also cut power above 72 mph (speed limited).

And it lost 150-200 hp, not just 50.

For the 2024+ models, they get 10 seconds of full power, no magically speed limiter and significantly less power drop.

**Even Tesla is limited though.

The regular “dual motors” can be tuned for more power. So can the Model 3 performance.

The guy who did my ceramic coat tuned his first gen model 3P to over 700 hp with a computer swap from China.

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