AC charging

[McgR]

Most public L2 EVSEs are untethered in UK so I'd assume own cable used.

Yes. But he could have used the cable of a potential earlier owned PHEV that doesn’t support 3 fase 22 Kw. I think that is why somebody mentioned that the cable can also be important when maximal charge speed is obtained. No issue off course if the original cable is used.

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[W1NGE]

Yes. But he could have used the cable of a potential earlier owned PHEV that doesn’t support 3 fase 22 Kw. I think that is why somebody mentioned that the cable can also be important when maximal charge speed is obtained. No issue off course if the original cable is used.

There's a lot of guessing until the OP comments but on the basis his charge session maxed out at 10.4kW that strongly suggests no onboard 22kW AC to me and is limited by the standard 11kW.

 

[McgR]

There's a lot of guessing until the OP comments but on the basis his charge session maxed out at 10.4kW that strongly suggests no onboard 22kW AC to me and is limited by the standard 11kW.

For me too. I think that is the problem off course.

But that doesn’t mean the suggestion by one of the forum members that was made to be sure the correct cable is used is wrong. Someone else replied to that the cable was of no importance hence my reply that the cable does matter.

 

[W1NGE]

For me too. I think that is the problem off course.

But that doesn’t mean the suggestion by one of the forum members that was made to be sure the correct cable is used is wrong. Someone else replied to that the cable was of no importance hence my reply that the cable does matter.

To get 10.4kW requires 3 phase supply and to be able to use that requires an L2 rated cable otherwise the charge rate would max out at 7.4kW at best. Therefore the cable isn't at play here.

 

[McgR]

To get 10.4kW requires 3 phase supply and to be able to use that requires an L2 rated cable otherwise the charge rate would max out at 7.4kW at best. Therefore the cable isn't at play here.

I was ready for that one, waiting for it to come ?

 

[Scandinavian]

To get 10.4kW requires 3 phase supply and to be able to use that requires an L2 rated cable otherwise the charge rate would max out at 7.4kW at best. Therefore the cable isn't at play here.

In Europe where we have a lot of three phase installations, there are two types of cable.

Three phase cable with 16 amps
Three phase cable with 32 amps.

So the cable could very well be at play here.

https://eshop.sectron.eu/en/charging-cable-type-2-type-2-mennekes-3x16a-400v-10m/p-15371/

 

[W1NGE]

In Europe where we have a lot of three phase installations, there are two types of cable.

Three phase cable with 16 amps
Three phase cable with 32 amps.

So the cable could very well be at play here.

https://eshop.sectron.eu/en/charging-cable-type-2-type-2-mennekes-3x16a-400v-10m/p-15371/

Nice try guys but this is a new car and will have been shipped with 32A as standard in UK. 12 months ago I would have pointed toward the default 16A cable ?

 

[W1NGE]

I was ready for that one, waiting for it to come ?

Yes but I then parried with the default L2 M3 32A cable supplied on new cars expecting this oversight!

Seems like the OP has lost interest on this one and who can blame them!?

 

[McgR]

Nice try guys but this is a new car and will have been shipped with 32A as standard in UK. 12 months ago I would have pointed toward the default 16A cable ?

That was not the point.

Someone stated to make sure the correct cable was used when maximal charge speed was not obtained (the one delivered with the car). Someone else replied the used cable was of no importance.

All I did was correctly confirming the used cable could be a factor determining in charging speed.

And then this useless discussion started.

 

[Throb]

Nice try guys but this is a new car and will have been shipped with 32A as standard in UK. 12 months ago I would have pointed toward the default 16A cable ?

That tells you nothing about which cable he was actually using though.

Somebody said the cable would make no difference, but this isn't true at all, which is the point @McgR is making.

 

[f1eng]

Does a cable have “intelligence” such that either car or charger can sense its capacity?
I plugged my Taycan into a 7.2 kW source in a car park recently using the cable which came with the Prius PHEV. I hung around to check if the cable got warm but actually the car only reported a 4.2kW charge rate and the cable remained cool.
I was (vaguely) interested if this was a charge source limitation, the car park has lots of plugs and about half were in use, or the cable, and if the cable how the car “knew”.

 

[W1NGE]

Does a cable have “intelligence” such that either car or charger can sense its capacity?
I plugged my Taycan into a 7.2 kW source in a car park recently using the cable which came with the Prius PHEV. I hung around to check if the cable got warm but actually the car only reported a 4.2kW charge rate and the cable remained cool.
I was (vaguely) interested if this was a charge source limitation, the car park has lots of plugs and about half were in use, or the cable, and if the cable how the car “knew”.

I believe this is part of the protocol (J1772) used - there are comms between EVSE and Car to perform a handshake which leads to a safe charging session. This will likely lead to cable attached if untethered to determine if 32A, 16A etc.

There are a few folk on the forum which can enlighten us on this topic.

 

[simcity]

I believe this is part of the protocol (J1772) used - there are comms between EVSE and Car to perform a handshake which leads to a safe charging session. This will likely lead to cable attached if untethered to determine if 32A, 16A etc.

There are a few folk on the forum which can enlighten us on this topic.

Yeah I thought it operated at a lower level than the J protocol - as part of the IEC / EN etc standard there was “current coding” built into plug on the cable which operated in conjunction with the EVSE and car during handshake. Effectively it would let the car and EVSE ‘know’ what the current rating of the cable was.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/four-ev-charging-modes-iec61851-standard/

and from:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62196

“Because the original design was made by the manufacturer Mennekes, it is colloquially known as the Mennekes connector. It features a round housing, which is flattened on one side for proper orientation, with up to seven pin-and-sleeve contacts for up to four AC conductors, a protective conductor and two signal pins that are used for the control pilot function (according to IEC 61851-1 Annex A) and for simultaneous proximity detection and current coding (according to IEC 61851-1 Annex B).”

 

[f1eng]

Yeah I thought it operated at a lower level than the J protocol - as part of the IEC / EN etc standard there was “current coding” built into plug on the cable which operated in conjunction with the EVSE and car during handshake. Effectively it would let the car and EVSE ‘know’ what the current rating of the cable was.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/four-ev-charging-modes-iec61851-standard/

and from:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62196

“Because the original design was made by the manufacturer Mennekes, it is colloquially known as the Mennekes connector. It features a round housing, which is flattened on one side for proper orientation, with up to seven pin-and-sleeve contacts for up to four AC conductors, a protective conductor and two signal pins that are used for the control pilot function (according to IEC 61851-1 Annex A) and for simultaneous proximity detection and current coding (according to IEC 61851-1 Annex B).”

Thanks.
Still not worth paying £130 for a thicker cable for the little I’ll use it though.

 

[W1NGE]

Thanks.
Still not worth paying £130 for a thicker cable for the little I’ll use it though.

But you would have got an L2 M3 cable (rated to 22kW @ 32A) free with the car - no need to purchase another cable?

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