DC charging issue/failures

[cityhpper]

Are the cooling fans in the wheel arches able to spin freely?

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[Donlam]

Hopefully, It could be a software issue. Did you try reset pcm to factory default? Sometime timer is a problem or elsewhere within software bug. Please keep us update. Best of luck.

 

[tigerbalm]

A brief update from today's diagnostic session at my Porsche Centre:

• We tried a 20 kW DC charger (that was in the workshop) and the error wasn't triggered in 20 mins of charging.
• We tried a 50 kW DC charger (also in the workshop) and similarly the error wasn't triggered.
• We then tried the 350 kW DC charger (the Porsche branded ones) and the error triggered within 4 mins – typical of what I've seen out on public high-speed chargers.
• There is no obvious error showing in PIWIS other then a vague "Charger: improbable values" log entry – which hinted at the DC chargers itself – but having it now happen on 5 different units from various manufactures – nobody thinks thats the case.
• None of the various OBC units are showing any signs of an issue or logging a fault.
• Ticket and available logging now with Porsche AG in Germany to recommend next steps.

So now its looking like its not a AC or DC thing – but more a high current thing (which obv implies DC).

There is a "hunch" that maybe the 400V booster is somehow involved – but really thats not based on any observable data yet.

 

[whitex]

A brief update from today's diagnostic session at my Porsche Centre:

• We tried a 20 kW DC charger (that was in the workshop) and the error wasn't triggered in 20 mins of charging.
• We tried a 50 kW DC charger (also in the workshop) and similarly the error wasn't triggered.
• We then tried the 350 kW DC charger (the Porsche branded ones) and the error triggered within 4 mins – typical of what I've seen out on public high-speed chargers.
• There is no obvious error showing in PIWIS other then a vague "Charger: improbable values" log entry – which hinted at the DC chargers itself – but having it now happen on 5 different units from various manufactures – nobody thinks thats the case.
• None of the various OBC units are showing any signs of an issue or logging a fault.
• Ticket and available logging now with Porsche AG in Germany to recommend next steps.

So now its looking like its not a AC or DC thing – but more a high current thing (which obv implies DC).

There is a "hunch" that maybe the 400V booster is somehow involved – but really thats not based on any observable data yet.

Was there any mention by PIWIS of which specific values were improbable? Their names, expected range vs. what was observed?

 

[Donlam]

"None of the various OBC units are showing any signs of an issue or logging a fault."

Can't find a problem is a problem. Hope they can fix it soon. Thanks for the update.

 

[tigerbalm]

Was there any mention by PIWIS of which specific values were improbable? Their names, expected range vs. what was observed?

Unfortunately not. Just that string. Quite cryptic and unhelpful.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Unfortunately not. Just that string. Quite cryptic and unhelpful.

I’m sure someone at Porsche will say “oh, it’s this line of code right here..”

On the bright, if speculative, side, it rather sounds like a software bug as opposed to failed/failing hardware. Doesn’t mean the fix will be quick, though ? - good luck and hope you get it sorted (well) before the trip.

 

[tigerbalm]

I’m sure someone at Porsche will say “oh, it’s this line of code right here..”

On the bright, if speculative, side, it rather sounds like a software bug as opposed to failed/failing hardware. Doesn’t mean the fix will be quick, though ? - good luck and hope you get it sorted (well) before the trip.

My current hunch is that it is a hardware failure but a subtle one. That something that measures a value – like perhaps incoming current – is returning incorrect values once the current is above 50 kW and that is causing the software to throw an exception and go down an unexpected code path.

 

[simcity]

My current hunch is that it is a hardware failure but a subtle one. That something that measures a value – like perhaps incoming current – is returning incorrect values once the current is above 50 kW and that is causing the software to throw an exception and go down an unexpected code path.

Tend to agree, it's hardware. May even be something silly like a pin on a connector that is getting too warm and getting pulled.

Fingers crossed for you either way. I remember reading your travails with the OBC issue. Hopefully this gets sorted pronto by Porsche.

 

[whitex]

I’m sure someone at Porsche will say “oh, it’s this line of code right here..”

Yep, found it:
for(x=0; x<100; x++)

if(VALUE[x]>MAX_EXPECTED_VALUE[x] || VALUE[x]<MIN_EXPECTED_VALUE[x])​

{​

/* THIS SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN */​

ReportError(" Charger: improbable values ");​

break;​

}​

On the bright, if speculative, side, it rather sounds like a software bug as opposed to failed/failing hardware. Doesn’t mean the fix will be quick, though ? - good luck and hope you get it sorted (well) before the trip.

It might be a software bug, but somehow it manifests itself only on this one car, so something is still different about @tigerbalm's car. If only the error message would have included some useful information (like maybe the port heats up and reports itself as closed ?‍ ).

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Yep, found it:
for(x=0; x<100; x++)

if(VALUE[x]>MAX_EXPECTED_VALUE[x] || VALUE[x]<MIN_EXPECTED_VALUE[x])​

{​

ReportError(" Charger: improbable values ");​

break;​

}​

Clear as mud, no?


It might be a software bug, but somehow it manifests itself only on this one car, so something is still different about @tigerbalm's car. If only the error message would have included some useful information (like maybe the port heats up and reports itself as closed ?‍ ).

Aye, that’s the one!

I wrote “software” but I do agree with @tigerbalm’s hypothesis of a subtle hw failure: it obviously works for discharging/driving and some form of charging, but once it gets in the “safe mode” (ie the for loop above) it gets stuck. I doubt it’s a hard failure in the non-functional sense. Weird wording, though: “improbable” implies a mere discrepancy between actual and expected (e.g.: expected to have ingested 5kWh and charger reported 10) and not an invalid/out of bounds value. But if it was “unmoeglich” in original, that may well denote an impossible (unsupported) value - for whatever that is.

I’m really curious about the outcome.

(This does fit the pattern, though: “you have an update/notification/error.” <click on additional info> “you have no updates/notifications/errors”.)

 

[whitex]

“improbable” implies a mere discrepancy between actual and expected (e.g.: expected to have ingested 5kWh and charger reported 10) and not an invalid/out of bounds value. But if it was “unmoeglich” in original, that may well denote an impossible (unsupported) value - for whatever that is.

"improbable" to me seemed like a translation of some word implying "invalid/out of bounds", as in "battery is showing -270C", unlikely/improbable unless someone launched the Taycan in pursuit of Starman's Roadster.

I’m really curious about the outcome.

Me too!

This does fit the pattern, though: “you have an update/notification/error.” <click on additional info> “you have no updates/notifications/errors”.)

Oups, I forgot to add a comment in the code above. Original post edited.

PS> Sometimes programmers do write code like this, often after going through FMEA analysis - they don't believe an error like this could ever happen, but need to catch it to pass FMEA. However, FMEA does not require clear or explanatory error messages, just keeping the device safe (which it does in this case, it terminates charging). Managers won't allow shipping messages like "If you are seeing this, the system is FUBR".

 

[tigerbalm]

While my car is in for continuing diagnosis – my Porsche Centre gave me a RWD Taycan as a loaner – in Neptune Blue, of course! This is the first time I've driven the RWD variant and I have to admit that it is a lot slower then I expected it to be.

It is still an EV and compared to most combustion vehicles on the road – it delivers on that EV trait of no lag – but it really does lack the "wanting to jump out of its own skin" feeling of the Turbo/Turbo S models.

The car is very lightly spec'd: with 21" Spyder Design wheels on Goodyear Eagle F1, glass roof, surround cameras and air suspension.

I really wished it had the steel springs suspension of the standard RWD as I would like to have experienced them. So much of driving is muscle memory – and in driving this, I have to be carful due to the lack of lane-change assist, radar or adaptive cruise control. I use these in traffic without even thinking – and have to re-train my brain to not rely on them – not altogether a bad thing, I suppose.

Road temps around Dublin this week are at freezing point (0c) and the summer Eagle F1's will break traction in the rears if pushed from a standing start – so the RWD still has a solid amount of torque!

This RWD spec retails at €112,000 here in Ireland. That does seem rather expensive given the light options and features available on the car. You'd get a lot more car for that money in Audi, BMW or Mercedes here in this country.

Driving this makes me appreciate (and miss) the options and customisations I picked on my own – that work for me.

And I picked up the car with 30 km on the odometer – it's always nice to be the first driver of a new car!

 

[whitex]

This RWD spec retails at €112,000 here in Ireland. That does seem rather expensive given the light options and features available on the car. You'd get a lot more car for that money in Audi, BMW or Mercedes here in this country.

I think this is true in almost any country. Even high end based on same platforms - similarly optioned Taycan Turbo S vs. Audi GT RS, $218K vs. $166K retail - Audi has much higher manufacturer incentives too. I had a loaner Cayenne recently which was priced similarly (a bit higher IIRC) more than a top end Q8 etron - similar sized but etron is electric and had a bunch of features which were all optional (and missing in the loaner) on the Cayenne. Porsche definitely charges a premium for the brand.

 

[tigerbalm]

Been rocking the base audio option in the loaner Taycan for the past week. I had the Burmester in my first Taycan 4S, mostly because I was very disappointed in the BOSE in my previous Panamera. The Burmester rattled the doors so much – even when at a modest volume – that despite the sound quality was very annoying.

I optioned the BOSE after carefully listening to the same 5 test audio tracks back to back in my Burmester and then immediately in a BOSE. While you could detect the difference – the BOSE that is the default in my Turbo S was way better then in the Panamera. And having had it for a year – I do not regret not optioning back in a Burmester.

I was expecting bad things from the base audio and instead have been quiet impressed by it. It lacks the base that a subwoofer provides but its stereo image is very impressive considering. The separation between base and treble is reasonable and pronounced. I expected it to really be for podcasts, talk radio, etc – but it is surprisingly musical.

I would still option in a BOSE in a future car – it is a genuine upgrade from the base and I would miss the subwoofer – but I wouldn't lose much sleep if I had to live with the base audio. And I'm fussy about stereo's.

Once on the road – with all the noise interference that brings – these audio options convene.

Generally, I'm snobby about BOSE. Their products have a processed sound that I don't enjoy. But I don't hear it in the Taycan. They did a good job there. For me, a good stereo should be made in Denmark and have an unpronounceable name that nobody has ever heard of!

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