Depreciation

[whitex]

Speaking of, a bit off topic. Have you needed something done in the meanwhile? When you will, will you go to the local dealership? I'm kind of in the same boat. Local dealer didn't want to sell me a car (I'm still waiting for a test drive 4 months after initial contact) and ordered the car 440km away at another dealership. Not feasible to go there for every minor thing (albeit I might consider the 2 year checkup if the price is very different)

Absolutely. Service will be done at one of the 2 dealers, each about 30-40 minutes drive from my house (one North, one South). There is a 3rd dealer about an hour away. Neither one was able to get me a car, but they are happy to service, why wouldn’t they?

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[tchavei]

Absolutely. Service will be done at one of the 2 dealers, each about 30-40 minutes drive from my house (one North, one South). There is a 3rd dealer about an hour away. Neither one was able to get me a car, but they are happy to service, why wouldn’t they?

I don't know. Bit concerned in my particular case. If they couldn't be bothered to sell me a car (or even test drive one), I'm not expecting a stellar warranty / maintenance service but obviously I could be wrong.

 

[007]

I don't know. Bit concerned in my particular case. If they couldn't be bothered to sell me a car (or even test drive one), I'm not expecting a stellar warranty / maintenance service but obviously I could be wrong.

I had the exact same issue. Dealers didn’t seem to care if they sold me a car or not. No call backs. Whatever attitude. Don’t waste my time approach.

My wife says it’s because of my wardrobe. Being that i grew up in California and like to wear whatever, like shorts and Tshirts whenever possible, and $25 sneakers from the outlet, I don’t fit the part of these fancier folks coming in to the dealership.

But after a while when I was finally able to convince them to sell me a car (Cayenne) and then another one (now the TTS), both in cash, the two dealers that I frequent here both treat me very nice.

Maybe try a suit next time? Or just say your your Ferrari is getting to be a bit impractical and are looking for a Taycan as a possible replacement.

 

[Archimedes]

There still isn't a Taycan for sale used that I have seen in the UK that I would buy, they haven't depreciated enough for me to buy one I don't care for the specification of.
Most have black interior and privacy glass, they would need to be less than half price for me to consider them .

Which is why the depreciation of your car is just as high, as others would view your car the same way you view there’s.

 

[tchavei]

I had the exact same issue. Dealers didn’t seem to care if they sold me a car or not. No call backs. Whatever attitude. Don’t waste my time approach.

My wife says it’s because of my wardrobe. Being that i grew up in California and like to wear whatever, like shorts and Tshirts whenever possible, and $25 sneakers from the outlet, I don’t fit the part of these fancier folks coming in to the dealership.

But after a while when I was finally able to convince them to sell me a car (Cayenne) and then another one (now the TTS), both in cash, the two dealers that I frequent here both treat me very nice.

Maybe try a suit next time? Or just say your your Ferrari is getting to be a bit impractical and are looking for a Taycan as a possible replacement.

You actually made me check my wardrobe. ?

I definitely hate suits. Maybe I should take off my $50 mi band and put my $1k tissot next time. ?

One thing I'm certainly going to do once I have my Taycan is driving straight to the local dealership and ask the SA to swipe his card for a quick charge while I ask her about the test drive.

 

[whan]

Depends where you live I suppose. In the bay area, you never know if the homeless looking guy happens to be a newly minted tech multi-millionaire

 

[Orwell]

I had the exact same issue. Dealers didn’t seem to care if they sold me a car or not. No call backs. Whatever attitude. Don’t waste my time approach.

My wife says it’s because of my wardrobe. Being that i grew up in California and like to wear whatever, like shorts and Tshirts whenever possible, and $25 sneakers from the outlet, I don’t fit the part of these fancier folks coming in to the dealership.

But after a while when I was finally able to convince them to sell me a car (Cayenne) and then another one (now the TTS), both in cash, the two dealers that I frequent here both treat me very nice.

Maybe try a suit next time? Or just say your your Ferrari is getting to be a bit impractical and are looking for a Taycan as a possible replacement.

My experience in california is that clothes or other cars have nothing to do with it. I would never have thought to wear a suit to a car dealership. That sounds like a generation before I was born. Haha

My interactions with one dealership from which I am ultimately buying a car is 100% online. The dealership where I was repeatedly handed sets of keys for solo test drives saw me wearing sneakers.

 

[Orwell]

Curious if anyone has found a compilation of how the various Tesla models have depreciated since first release.

my hypothesis is that the various teslas represent both a better indication of how EVs evolve technically and how they depreciate financially versus comparisons to other models within Porsche’s lineup.

 

[Orwell]

I definitely hate suits. Maybe I should take off my $50 mi band and put my $1k tissot next time. ?

Maybe it is geography dependent. I have taken Ferraris out of dealerships in california wearing an Apple Watch (or no watch). But maybe if in Dubai, you need to be wearing the watch I most often see over there: the watches that can cost more than my car . https://www.richardmille.com/collections

 

[NJ-Taycan]

DEPRECIATION! This is exactly the reason why I exited my Taycan last month. Had the car listed for sale for 2 months (Jan and Feb-2023) and received no interest. Shopped the car to 12 Porsche dealers, had offers as low as $90k and several not interested (we have too many Taycans sitting and not selling). Most offers were in the $100k range for a $155k MSRP 2022 Taycan 4S Cross Turismo. A 35% drop in just 6 months.

Unfortunately, the Taycan, like all EV’s will be impacted by a severe depreciation curve which will not slow down, and is more than just the used car market returning to normal. I ended up getting lucky and found a trade-in value of $125k for my car and let it go, as I was not prepared to ride that curve down. The dealership gave me a new Porsche Macan GTS build allocation at MSRP which will be here is mid-May. And I walked away with a nice check and pulled my equity off the table.

They have my car for 5 weeks now and it’s still sitting for sale at $134,995.00 as a CPO vehicle.

I am looking at it this way:

Paid MSRP for my Taycan and paid zero sales tax in NJ. That was a $10,200.00 savings.

Got the $7,500.00 federal tax credit as I signed prior to the IRA.

Got a $7,000.00 sales tax credit on my new ordered Porsche. Amazing how NJ allows for a sales tax credit on a car you paid no sales tax on. But confirmed this and documented on my buyer’s order.

Drove my Taycan just over 6,000 miles, with free electric when gas was $6.00 a gallon. A savings of an additional $1,500.00.

So, at the end of the day, it cost me $3,800.00 to try out the best EV in the world, and I am out before the car depreciates another $25k by end of this year.

Here’s the deal, there are 826 used Taycans listed for sale on the US. Gasoline has dropped from $6.00/gallon back down the $3.00. Elon has dropped the price on new Teslas by $30,000.00, and the President has stripped away the $7,500.00 federal tax credit for anyone who can afford a Taycan, as we can safely assume that most Porsche buyer’s have an AGI north of $150k single and $300k married.

And, the greatest factor is that as technology continues to advance, Taycans with 230 mile ranges will plummet when newer EV’s go further and charge faster. I’ve said this before, but an iPhone 5 is pretty much worthless today. And you can say what you want about updated software, but keep in mind the hardware in the EV will also be the bottleneck.

Loved the car, but a little voice in my head (the same voice that told me to convert my stock portfolio to cash last year) kept telling me it was time to pivot and sell.

Still here and enjoy reading the forum and posts as the Taycan is an amazing machine. If you’re staying in your Taycan, then don’t worry about market value and just drive the car for 100,000 miles and enjoy the vehicle.

Heck, if I miss my old car I can buy a used 4S next year for $80k, or maybe even a cheap Turbo based on how the market is shaping up.

The Taycan, like the Panamera's and Cayennes will never hold the value of the Porsche sports cars, and the EV models will have a more extreme depreciation curve than any other Porsche vehicle.

Sorry to be the prophet of doom, but these are simply the facts of the matter.

 

[whitex]

I had the exact same issue. Dealers didn’t seem to care if they sold me a car or not. No call backs. Whatever attitude. Don’t waste my time approach.

My wife says it’s because of my wardrobe. Being that i grew up in California and like to wear whatever, like shorts and Tshirts whenever possible, and $25 sneakers from the outlet, I don’t fit the part of these fancier folks coming in to the dealership.

But after a while when I was finally able to convince them to sell me a car (Cayenne) and then another one (now the TTS), both in cash, the two dealers that I frequent here both treat me very nice.

Maybe try a suit next time? Or just say your your Ferrari is getting to be a bit impractical and are looking for a Taycan as a possible replacement.

Many years ago I ended up with a custom order 911 instead of an Acura NSX, purely because the sales guy judged me to not be a serious customer just trying to joyride, so I went across the street to Porsche, test drove a 911, ordered one on the spot.

Dealers around here started to ignore customers simply because they had more customers than cars to sell - no need to put any effort in the sale, so why bother? I had Taycan deposit with one dealer, where the SA was very good, attentive. That SA left after a year, the next assigned SA didn’t really care about some undetermined future sale, he was mostly interested in selling what he had on the lot or incoming soon. As soon as he realized I was set on waiting for allocation, he stopped answering questions, paying much attention. To be clear, I would check in via email every 2 months, maybe ask a question or 2 at the same time, so it’s not like I was bombarding him with communications. At another dealer, similar story, except no change in SA, they just lost interest after a year.

In 2021, one of the dealers in my area declined to even take my contact info to put on a waitlist, because "our waitlists are too long already". They didn't see me, know anything about me, other than what I told them over the phone, which was "I am in the market to buy a Taycan Turbo CT, don't need a test drive, willing to order and put down deposit today, or if you have a car that's close, I will buy it today". The fact that they didn't even care to take my contact information does not mean they judged me not serious, as I offered money without asking for anything up front. The simple fact of the matter was they just didn't want to do the work gathering more customers, since they already had more customers than they expected to have cars.

What do all of the above have in common, well, try put yourself in a SA's shoes. During normal times, they profile customers to decide which customers are worth spending time on (i.e. they are likely to buy) and which customers are just window shopping or joyriding. By doing that, they can optimize the amount of work they put in to get money. Unfortunately this means they will occasionally lose a real customer, but the net time savings may still be worth it to them (e.g. save 500 hours of work per year, lose one $5,000 commission - saves working for $10 per hour). Now add to this the recent pandemic shortages, and the SA logic is even more obvious - every cars sells itself whether or not they bother acquiring and curating more customer relationships, therefore there is absolutely no incentive to talk to new customers - it's time wasted from the SA point of view. Of course that point of view is shortsighted, as times change, and at some point they will have to start working for their money again, but for now, no need to talk to customers, even if they roll in a brand new Rolls Royce.

Want to get attention from a dealer in a shortage situation? Call them and tell them you're willing to pay $50K ADM for a Taycan - that just might get them to pay attention to you, as they probably don't have too many customers like that. Chances are you're moving up to the head of the waitlist queue.

 

[whitex]

DEPRECIATION! This is exactly the reason why I exited my Taycan last month. Had the car listed for sale for 2 months (Jan and Feb-2023) and received no interest. Shopped the car to 12 Porsche dealers, had offers as low as $90k and several not interested (we have too many Taycans sitting and not selling). Most offers were in the $100k range for a $155k MSRP 2022 Taycan 4S Cross Turismo. A 35% drop in just 6 months.

Unfortunately, the Taycan, like all EV’s will be impacted by a severe depreciation curve which will not slow down, and is more than just the used car market returning to normal. I ended up getting lucky and found a trade-in value of $125k for my car and let it go, as I was not prepared to ride that curve down. The dealership gave me a new Porsche Macan GTS build allocation at MSRP which will be here is mid-May. And I walked away with a nice check and pulled my equity off the table.

They have my car for 5 weeks now and it’s still sitting for sale at $134,995.00 as a CPO vehicle.

I am looking at it this way:

Paid MSRP for my Taycan and paid zero sales tax in NJ. That was a $10,200.00 savings.

Got the $7,500.00 federal tax credit as I signed prior to the IRA.

Got a $7,000.00 sales tax credit on my new ordered Porsche. Amazing how NJ allows for a sales tax credit on a car you paid no sales tax on. But confirmed this and documented on my buyer’s order.

Drove my Taycan just over 6,000 miles, with free electric when gas was $6.00 a gallon. A savings of an additional $1,500.00.

So, at the end of the day, it cost me $3,800.00 to try out the best EV in the world, and I am out before the car depreciates another $25k by end of this year.

Here’s the deal, there are 826 used Taycans listed for sale on the US. Gasoline has dropped from $6.00/gallon back down the $3.00. Elon has dropped the price on new Teslas by $30,000.00, and the President has stripped away the $7,500.00 federal tax credit for anyone who can afford a Taycan, as we can safely assume that most Porsche buyer’s have an AGI north of $150k single and $300k married.

And, the greatest factor is that as technology continues to advance, Taycans with 230 mile ranges will plummet when newer EV’s go further and charge faster. I’ve said this before, but an iPhone 5 is pretty much worthless today. And you can say what you want about updated software, but keep in mind the hardware in the EV will also be the bottleneck.

Loved the car, but a little voice in my head (the same voice that told me to convert my stock portfolio to cash last year) kept telling me it was time to pivot and sell.

Still here and enjoy reading the forum and posts as the Taycan is an amazing machine. If you’re staying in your Taycan, then don’t worry about market value and just drive the car for 100,000 miles and enjoy the vehicle.

Heck, if I miss my old car I can buy a used 4S next year for $80k, or maybe even a cheap Turbo based on how the market is shaping up.

The Taycan, like the Panamera's and Cayennes will never hold the value of the Porsche sports cars, and the EV models will have a more extreme depreciation curve than any other Porsche vehicle.

Sorry to be the prophet of doom, but these are simply the facts of the matter.

You are not propheting doom, you're just telling us market is returning to normal. 35% lost when you drove the car off the lot is a little steep, but the high interest rates are a large factor - notice that if the dealer gave you $100K for your car, it is costing them a grand a month in interest to just sit on the lot. You said it yourself, 2 months, no interest - so they have to plan for a few months of sitting on the lot, so a few grand worth of interest alone, in addition to taking up room at the dealer of course, which is not free. They also take on the risk if it doesn't sell.

I bough a brand new 2001 911C4 once (custom order, loaded with all tech options back then), sold it under 2 years later, took a bath on it - IIRC the best price I got was 54% of MSRP, 46% depreciation in 2 years. So it's not just Porsche EV's that lose value in an uncertain economy. Ever since I've been buying cars, I knew driving it off the lot loses at least 15% value, if for no other reason than the dealer can get that exact same car, brand new, for 15%+ under MSRP from the factory, so why would they buy a used one from a customer for more than that, right? With Porsche you probably lose more, since the cars are so customized, the new one dealer can order can be fully customized while the used one requires a customer who wants those specific options. The only time this breaks down, like during the pandemic, is when the dealer cannot order any car they want from the factory. I don't know what the status is on the 4S CT, but I heard my local dealers have CT4 allocations available, so obviously any CT4 sold today at MSRP loses at least what the dealer profit is in the MSRP when the buyer hands over the payment. My guess is that I could probably negotiate 4% off MSRP for some Taycan models today, since it's a guaranteed sale for the dealer, but if they spec build it, it costs them 1% for every month it sits on the lot, and 4 months on the lot is probably expected in today's economy (maybe less in early summer, but today's allocations are not getting delivered till later summer probably).

Be glad you made out well with the Taycan via the various credits. This will not be the case with the Macan, should you try to sell it after the same amount of time (make sure you don't double count the tax credit, once for your Taycan gains, and then again when you try to calculate how much the Macan costed you - that $7K can only count once, if you counted it towards the Taycan costs, you have to assume you paid full tax for the Macan when selling it). My guess 15%+ depreciation off MSRP if you try to sell it back to them a month later, unless you're buying something else from them, then they can fudge the trade to make it look like they gave you more.

I don't think anyone should be buying a Taycan thinking it's an investment, or even the most economical transportation. Want a new car which is inexpensive and reliable, with low depreciation, go with base Corolla with no options.

 

[f1eng]

there’s.

theirs.

Indeed, even more so, I expect.

The proliferation of Taycans with monochrome paintwork, black interiors, privacy glass and glass roofs show clearly what the vast majority want.

My car has none of these features - happily for me but sadly for depreciation

 

[whitex]

theirs.

Indeed, even more so, I expect.

The proliferation of Taycans with monochrome paintwork, black interiors, privacy glass and glass roofs show clearly what the vast majority want.

My car has none of these features - happily for me but sadly for depreciation

Maybe not. If your car is rare, your depreciation may also be rarely low. Remember, when it comes to selling it, you only need one buyer who wants what you have and cannot find it elsewhere.

I couldn't find a used or in stock TTCT as I wanted it when I was hunting for an allocation. Sure, there was a low number of them to start with, but the surprising part for me was that most of the ones I found had red leather (which I don't like), and none had RAS and PDCC! The last part really surprised me btw, people (or dealers) ordering a Turbo and not specing the performance package. I have been very much enjoying my performance package by the way, whether it's taking fast highway ramp corners, or making tight u-turns in city traffic.

 

[Fish Fingers]

UK perspective....

I find it strange that people think that second hand car purchasers in a few years time are going to want to buy a used ICE car, rather than a used EV.

I get that the new EVs may do more mileage then....let's say 400 mile range.

But I find in hard to believe used car buyers will prefer an ICE car that costs over 10x (my figures compared to my M2) to run than a used EV - just because it will only do 250-300 miles range.

Especially when more and more petrol stations are converting to EV charging stations and new ICE cars are being banned in the UK from 2030, so will feel obsolete.

Or, is everybody going to suddenly be able to afford a brand new EV then and not stoop to buying used?
Not going to happen, especially as EV tax incentives are withdrawn.

Or, just keep there existing ICE car (I know a lot will do this).

But the remainder will want a used EV.

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