GTS Ride Quality with or without Active Ride

[refazi]

my 2 cents, i had many Taycans, GTS ST, Sedan and CT from both generations and i agree with @prj he is on point on all posts..
I love the PAR (although it's kinda noisy i'm just not sure if it's the tires or the system) and love the GTS firmness, it just feels more accurate without sacrificing much of comfort

The Audi RS eTron i have (Gen 1 MY24) on the 20" is the most comfy setup i had (on the P7 Blue NF0 Summer), which feels similar to a CT with 20" but you give up a lot of the great feedback that the Taycan GTS has.

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[anonymouse]

@dcp10 - you've had some great support from others here; just coming in late with a couple of small points:

daily driver on Oxfordshire’s diabolical roads

I absolutely love Active Ride, and it is great on exactly those roads. Significantly better passenger experience too (less feeling sick = fewer complaints = permission to push on harder on B-roads and corners )

However the main risk on our terrible roads is pothole damage so (a) consider 20 inch wheels especially in winter as the 21s tend to blow more quickly; (b) make sure you get wheel and tyre insurance, perhaps thrown in by the dealer as part of the sale. I have made many claims on mine!

We would be getting all season tires either way.

This may dictate your wheel size. I have 21s on my Turbo Sport Turismo and there are no all-season tyres available for my huge/fat wheels (at least not with 3PMSF marking and Porsche approved). So we ended up with a separate set of wheels, 20 inch, with winter tyres. It was a long hunt to find someone who operates a tyre hotel so far south but there is one in Maidenhead who are now storing my off-season wheels. I think if I were buying again I'd include a set of winter wheels in the original purchase so i could put some price leverage on the dealer.

 

[dcp10]

However the main risk on our terrible roads is pothole damage so (a) consider 20 inch wheels especially in winter as the 21s tend to blow more quickly; (b) make sure you get wheel and tyre insurance, perhaps thrown in by the dealer as part of the sale. I have made many claims on mine!

Many thanks - and absolutely agree about our diabolical roads (it would be nice if Oxfordshire would quit their anti-car congestion charging, "Low Traffic Neighbourhoods" and 20mph obsession and actually fix the roads!).

My question is though: how would 20-inch wheels affect the steering feel?

- The well-weighted tactile steering of the GTS (with PAR, 21" performance tyres etc.) was a standout feature to me - certainly compared to my only other reference, a J1.1 4S with 20" wheels.

Given that my local dealer has flat out refused any more test drives (and really doesn't know his stuff), I'm really grateful to all the forum members for their kind advice

 

[dcp10]

…and following on from this: if I configure a GTS with PAR I have two choices, either:-

(a) Add PAR as part of the £6939 Dynamic Package. This adds "Summer Performance Tyres".

or

(b) Add PAR on its own, for £6476.

Anyone know what sort of 21" tyres I would get with PAR but without the "Dynamic Package" ? (I see from the configurator that neither the "Summer Tyres" nor the "Summer Performance Tyres" are selected)

- does this mean all-weather tyres, or some kind of Eco-optimised tyre?
- would that be the "Goldilocks" option: 21" looks but better ride?

 

[anonymouse]

You might like to try Oli at Porsche Tewkesbury. I have found him very knowledgeable and have bought two (used) Taycans from him and sold one. Also they sorted a couple of post-sale issues extremely well. The general rule applies: the further away from London you go, the better the service.

I haven't done a direct comparison but we have just been on a road trip to southern Germany on the 20 inch winter tyres and the performance/handling was brilliant on all types of road including fast driving on the autobahn. See here.

 

[RacingDuck]

When watching Tyre Reviews on YouTube I get the impression, that the actual make and model of the tyre is maybe even more important than the size for steering feel.

I'm probably not a reference for that - both J1.1 and J1.2 CT had as precise steering as I could wish for.

In Germany I only found 20 inch all season tyres I would consider (Michelin CrossClimate 2), all other dimensions either the front or the rear are missing.

You can see what kind of tyres you get when you press the little tyre symbol near the top of the rim selection.

Without the dynamic package it's either Conti SportContact 7 or Hankook Ion evo (on the aero rims) or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5. With the dynamic package it's Pirelli PZero R.

 

[prj]

To clarify, the Hankook Ion Evo is on the new 21" Aero wheels, which unlike all others are the same width as the 20". This style only:

So these wheels just look bigger, but the performance is not any better than 20" because the rim is not any wider.
Hence if you want the 21" for performance reasons you probably want to skip these.

 

[d00d]

Finally there could be an alternative IF any reputable tire manufacturer made a set of all season 245/40R21 & 285/35R21’s for these factory wheels. Perhaps one of you knows of someone who makes high quality A/S tire in these sizes, eg., been looking for over a year so far unsuccessfulliy.

Hankook comes close with 245/35R21 and 295/30R21 all seasons (600 tread wear).

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/hankook-ion-evo-as

I inquired about adding the original sizes 5/28/24 and received this reply.

Hello d00d!

Thank you for contacting Hankook's warranty support. As of now, we are uncertain about the future sizes that will be added to the ion EVO AS or the ion EVO AS SUV line. For your reference, we do carry the ion EVO(summer tire) in the 285/40R20 XL. Please contact us at 615-432-0700 option 1, if you need further assistance.

Regards!

Warranty Support
Technical Services Team
America HQ, 51

HANKOOK TIRE AMERICA CORP.
333 Commerce St, Suite 600, Nashville, TN 37201

T +1 615 432 0700 option 1
[email protected]

 

[prj]

I'm just using my Taycan as a three to four hour highway commuter between houses twice a week, so not sporting use.
The Continental ProContact RX all season has a tread wear rating of 500, but the performance tires are 300 or less (higher is longer);

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireIndex=4&autoMake=Porsche&autoYear=2023&autoModel=Taycan&autoModClar=&frontWidth=265/&frontRatio=35&frontDiameter=21&frontSortCode=61027&rearWidth=305/&rearRatio=30&rearDiameter=21&rearSortCode=61058&performance=ALL

Procontact RX is not really a winter tyre though, does not do well in the snow or ice compared to tyres with the 3 snow peaks on them because it does not have a soft compound.
A comparable (but most likely better performing) tyre would be the Uniroyal Rainsport.

It's just what we call a summer "rain tyre" / "eco tyre", which is a low performance tyre designed to handle wet decently and be cheap to run. Comparing that to UHP is not really fair.

Over here since 2022 using such tyres in winter is illegal and punishable by a fine and/or revocation of the MOT, because it is unsafe in sub zero temperatures, as the tyre gets hard like plastic. Hence it is mandated that all tyres used in winter here must have the three snow peaks logo.

 

[d00d]

Thanks prj, assumed three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) tires would have lower tread wear rating, but the Michelin CrossClimate2 is 640 for example.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/michelin-crossclimate2

Winter tires are rated 3PMSF, but so can all seasons.
https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-is-the-threepeak-mountain-snowflake-symbol

I usually drive after the roads have been cleared but have become stuck in my driveway.
Might try the CrossClimate2 on my 20" wheel set next winter, an unrated tread wear winter tire may not last a season in highway driving.

 

[SoccerMan94043]

…and following on from this: if I configure a GTS with PAR I have two choices, either:-

(a) Add PAR as part of the £6939 Dynamic Package. This adds "Summer Performance Tyres".

or

(b) Add PAR on its own, for £6476.

Anyone know what sort of 21" tyres I would get with PAR but without the "Dynamic Package" ? (I see from the configurator that neither the "Summer Tyres" nor the "Summer Performance Tyres" are selected)

- does this mean all-weather tyres, or some kind of Eco-optimised tyre?
- would that be the "Goldilocks" option: 21" looks but better ride?

In the US I believe the standard summer tires are Pirelli P Zeros, while the max summer tires (part of the dynamics package) are Pirelli P Zero Rs. I assume that could be different in other parts of the world.

TireRack in the US shows two OEM all season tire options for my 21" RS Spyders:

Continental ProContact RX
Goodyear Eagle Touring


And one winter option:

Continental WinterContact TS 860 S

 

[prj]

Might try the CrossClimate2 on my 20" wheel set next winter, an unrated tread wear winter tire may not last a season in highway driving.

CrossClimate 2 is better than ProContact RX but I'd not drive that in the summer.
If you have two wheelsets, then the Conti Wintercontact, Pirelli P Zero Winter 2 or Michelin Pilot Alpin would be a better idea for the winter and then for the summer you can either run the ProContact if you want to save money, or choose something else non-uhp.

But those listed above you really don't want to have on the car in warmer weather - they have a softer compound than the all seasons and will wear quickly in warm weather. The ones approved for the Taycan are still "hard compound winter tyres" though.
There are even softer compound winter tyres (like the Hakkapeliitas I have on my Taycan now), but none of them are NF0 rated. And to be honest, the torque/wheelspin has worn out the fronts quite rapidly, so I am not surprised Porsche does not recommend them. The grip is amazing in very cold weather though.

That treadwear rating is also not really a good idea to compare when you have seasonality.
All tyres wear slower in cold weather... So even though a proper winter tyre will always have a lower treadwear rating, it does not mean it will wear super fast if you stick to using it in winter only, and the wear in winter will be somewhat comparable to that of a summer tyre in the summer, even though the treadwear rating may suggest otherwise.

That's why you don't want to run the winter tyres in summer. Not because the car will do badly on them or be undrivable, but because it's stupid expensive, as they wear extremely quickly when the weather is hot, as the compound gets super soft.

 

[d00d]

Good point about winter tires having adequate wear in the cold, I'll go for the Pirelli P Zero Winter, P Zero Winter 2 and others mentioned unavailable in Taycan 20" sizes.
I'll continue to use the 21" ProContact RX set the other three seasons, but will have a summer performance tire with the 21" on '27.

 

[dcp10]

In the US I believe the standard summer tires are Pirelli P Zeros, while the max summer tires (part of the dynamics package) are Pirelli P Zero Rs.

Thanks for this - very helpful. Presumably the Max summer tyres have stiffer sidewalls?

THE 21” RS Spyder alloys look great, so I wonder if using Summer (non-Max) tyres would be a good compromise beetween handling and low-speed ride comfort (as I think @prj has alluded to).

 

[prj]

Thanks for this - very helpful. Presumably the Max summer tyres have stiffer sidewalls?

THE 21” RS Spyder alloys look great, so I wonder if using Summer (non-Max) tyres would be a good compromise beetween handling and low-speed ride comfort (as I think @prj has alluded to).

Normal 21" Tyres should be more compliant than the P Zero R.

I would not get the tyres with the dynamics package unless you're going to track the car, as they also have worse wet performance.
Selecting the AR without the dynamics package you're just saving some money on the tyres.

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