Home charging help

[neo402]

Hello, I am working on a home charging setup with electrician. This will be in USA.

Car comes with mobile charger plus, I presume, and the cable that connects from that to car. So we need wall outlet in garage and the cable that will go from that to mobile charger plus.

We got confused between Nema 14-50 and Nema 6-50. Looks like the 4 prong Nema 14-50 with 50 Amps is the one to go, and use 6 gauge wire. The breaker panel is in a adjoining smaller garage. So he will be running wire from there under crawlspace and out onto bigger garage.

Please help if I am wrong someplace.

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[irrelevant]

I think all EVSE's use the NEMA 14-50 plug. The basic EVSE that comes with the Taycan does.

Consider talking to your electrician about running 4 gauge wire, rather than six. This will help "future proof", by allowing you to upgrade to a hardwired 60 amp EVSE in the future if you get a second EV, or if you want to charge faster now. The material cost will be a little higher, but the labor should be the same.

 

[daveo4EV]

there is no functional difference between NEMA 6-50 and/or 14-50 either will function identically - and charge at the same rate 9.6 kW - the really issue with the type of plug is what to order from the factory for when you're traveling away from home - and when away from home 14-50 is the more likely plug to encounter so that is why most EVSE's come with a 14-50 plug - it is more common than 6-50 - but both again are identical in functionality for use with an EVSE.

for charging at home it simply does not matter, because you'll simply match the plug you ordered with your vehicle to the same plug you have the electrician install - even if you get the wrong the one there are adapter pigtails that can convert one to the other so you're never actually stuck…

in either case specify/require/demand the Hubble brand industrial version plug socket Porsche recommends/requires/demands in their tech bulletins referenced below…

these threads may help…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...age…for-those-that-wish-to-over-do-it-….2343/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...uide-to-the-porsche-evse-pmc-pmcc-pwcc.13886/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-related-porsche-ntsb-article-analysis.13902/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...and-useful-road-warrior-ev-charging-kit.6812/

 

[neo402]

there is no functional difference between NEMA 6-50 and/or 14-50 either will function identically - and charge at the same rate 9.6 kW - the really issue with the type of plug is what to order from the factory for when you're traveling away from home - and when away from home 14-50 is the more likely plug to encounter

for charging at home it simply does not matter, because you'll simply match the plug you ordered with your vehicle to the same plug you have the electrician install - even if you get the wrong the one there are adapter pigtails that can convert one to the other so you're never actually stuck…

in either case specify/require/demand the Hubble brand industrial version plug socket Porsche recommends/requires/demands in their tech bulletins referenced below…

these threads may help…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...age…for-those-that-wish-to-over-do-it-….2343/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...uide-to-the-porsche-evse-pmc-pmcc-pwcc.13886/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-related-porsche-ntsb-article-analysis.13902/

Thanks a lot

 

[daveo4EV]

I think all EVSE's use the NEMA 14-50 plug. The basic EVSE that comes with the Taycan does.

Consider talking to your electrician about running 4 gauge wire, rather than six. This will help "future proof", by allowing you to upgrade to a hardwired 60 amp EVSE in the future if you get a second EV, or if you want to charge faster now. The material cost will be a little higher, but the labor should be the same.

agree on the 4 gauge wire vs. 6 gauge wire or even 2 gauge so you can upgrade later on to a higher amp charger for faster charging speeds should it be necessary

the new RAM EV truck for example has a 200+ kWh battery - charging that at 50 amps (9.6 kW) would be over 20 hours from empty - but 100 amp 19.2 kW EVSE would be only 10 hours…

 

[Tooney]

--Consider getting a non-Porsche EVSE instead of relying on Porsche Mobile Charger Plus. Many posts/threads on here explain why, if you are located in North America.
--Also, pay attention to the plug pin orientation of whichever EVSE you buy. You want to ensure the receptacle location and pin orientation will work with how the EVSE is mounted on the wall.
--Same goes for reach of cable from mounted EVSE to plug port on your car.
--When electrician uses the recommended heavy duty Hubbell receptacle, the face plate opening for that receptacle is larger diameter than standard, and the required box is deeper than standard 15-40R mounting box.
--Some EVSEs require wifi connection for software updates, etc. If you get one like that, check wifi connection in garage.
--Read posts in forum about home charging equipment and installations for tips.

 

[PNWTaycan4S]

The Porsche charger is defective, has been recalled, and the "fix" cuts the charging speed by 1/2. It looks like they are still selling these defective units.

You're better off using another manufacturer, and there are many better and less expensive chargers. State of Charge channel is a good one to review, that discusses many alternatives: (1) State Of Charge - YouTube

We're using a Pulsar Plus Wallbox for our Niro EV, and it works great. Our mobile charger is a Tesla with an adaptor and has been super reliable. The Tesla adapter also lets you use Tesla Level 2 changers at hotels and other Level 2 locations.

If you do use the Porsche charger, make sure you use a Hubble receptacle.

 

[daveo4EV]

some more color on this topic…cause I'm bored.

for home/non-mobile use NEMA 14-50/6-50/hardwiring has NO practical/effective/meaningful difference and all offer IDENTICAL charging performance for a given 240V/50 amp breaker circuit - namely a 'raw' charging rate of 9.6 kW…assuming an EVSE with a 40 amp charging rate requiring a 50 amp circuit (plug based or hardwired).

it is a "myth" that any particluar EVSE will charge an EV faster than another EVSE - they are all the same if they are provisioned/purchased to provide the same circuit size…all 40 amp EVSE's (which require a 50 amp breaker/circuit) are 9.6 kW EVSE's…they can not be faster than one another for an identical electrical circuit.

the real problem is not all EVSE's are clearly labled/marketed - and just going by the plug-type does NOT tell you how fast the EVSE is - there are NEMA 14-50 plug based EVSE's that are 16/24/32/40 amp EVSE's - even though they all use the SAME 14-50 plug.

so a savy consumer is required to actually carefully read the actual charging specifications to determine the actual charge rate a given EVSE will provide.

why do 16/24/32 amp EVSE's have NEMA 14-50/6-50 plugs? Well that's a matter of ease of use/compatibility so that they are "plug & play" with existing 240V plugs commonly found all over North America - the _MAXIMUM_ power from a NEMA 14-50/6-50 plug is 40 amps or 9.6 kW - but there nothing saying all NEMA 14-50/6-50 EVSE must use the maximum power - they can be a NEMA 14-50 EVSE - but only provide 16 amps of actual charge rate to a given EV…this is confusing and the EVSE vendors make no attempts to be clear, and automotive dealers are equally confused.

again the choice of "plug type" is more about what sort of compatibility you want when using your mobile EVSE when "away" from home - and that requires the customer/consumer to "guess" what type of plug they will encounter away from their garage…given NEMA 14-50's RV applications it has become the odds-on favorite or most likely 240V/50 amp plug you will encounter when traveling away from your own garage - however even that doesn't matter as it's a farily simple matter to equip yourself with adapter such that you can use the 3 most common (99%) 240V/50 amp plugs you will EVER see in north America - NEMA 14-50, 6-50, and marine shore power…so even then plug choice makes little different if you carry with you two additional adapters

it's worth noting you will NOT use your mobile EVSE if you are using a public charger or DCFast charger - so the mobile EVSE and it's plug choice is only really for circumstances where you are traveling away from home and wish to charge your EV at a location that only has a "bare" 240V electrical socket - if the location you are visiting has an existing EVSE then you will not even unpack your mobile EVSE and again the plug-choice does not matter…

this type of thing was much more important in 2012 than it is in 2023 - as the proliferation of EVSE's (public and semi-private business) and Fast Charging make the need for an owner to have their own mobile EVSE with the correct plugs an ever decreasing requirement…

when i started driving EV's hotels for example may have an bare electrical outlet you can use but were unlikley to have an EV-charger/EVSE - these days if a hotel is EV 'friendly' they are likely to have EVSE and not just a "bare" NEMA 14-50…so times are changing…

the only concern you have is how to charge my EV in my home garage it simply does not matter what you choose - you simply match your EVSE plug type to what ever plug you already have or will have installed - and simply plug it in and never worry about it again…

concern about what plug type to provision/source/order only really comes into play if you intend to travel with your EVSE and plug into random locations where you do not control what type of plug you will encounter when away from home - but as I noted, that scenario, day by day, week by week, month by month is becoming far less of a concern with more and more pre-existing EV charging infrastructure being brought online and available to the general public.

having a TeslaTap to be able to use existing Tesla Destination chargers for example is far more important for traveling (and likely to be useful and actually used) vs. obsessing over which type of NEMA plug to have.

these days I hardly ever unpack my mobile EVSE key anymore - as I'm able to use other sites installed Tesla/J-1772/CCS EVSE's - invalidating the need for me to even have my mobile EVSE in the vehicle while traveling - at this point in time my mobile EVSE has become about as useful as a physical spare tire, and with equal levels of utilization - great when you need it - but the frequency is typically very very very low.

 

[SergeyIndy]

I am getting ready for the Taycan. Totally new to this. Appreciate the help with the questions.

- Purchased EVSE based on reviews. Emporia seems to be the best across various channels.
- Emporia dropped price by $100 for a few hours on Amazon so I was able to snag that.

- The plan is to direct wire at 60Amp input for 48Amp output. Rationale is to have minimum wiring with no concern having an outlet. Also, unwiring seems pretty easy but at $300, I should probably time the price again and get another one as backup. I will check with the electrician if I can on my own just pop the cover, shut the breaker, and wire/unwire a replacement unit since each wire is attached by a screw clamp. Any downside to direct wire otherwise?

- The plan is to ramp it down via EVSE app to the minimum if all 48Amp not needed. I would typically park back at 4pm and then do not need to drive again by 7.30am. Rationale is to have the least intense charge level that fits the overnight charging window plus pre-condition battery by the time of departure for minimum stress on it before driving. The levels for Emporia settings are below. Any downside to the long but slow charging, say 12Amp, or there is some sweet spot in between?

15A (2.9kW / 12A max charge)
20A (3.8kW / 16A max charge)
25A (4.8kW / 20A max charge)
30A (5.8kW / 24A max charge)
35A (6.7kW / 28A max charge)
40A (7.7kW / 32A max charge)
45A (8.6kW / 36A max charge)
50A (9.6kW / 40A max charge)
60A (11.5kW / 48A max charge) Hardwired Only
70A (11.5kW / 48A max charge) Hardwired Only
80A (11.5kW / 48A max charge) Hardwired Only

- EVSE comes with a very long cord, 24 feet, that I do not need to wind and unwind every time. The car will be parked left charging port next to the elevated cabinet where I plan to install the charger. Any downside or risk trimming it down to the desired length by the electrician?

- Plan to install it inside a cabinet on the front wall with discrete wire going from the panel. Any downside having it in the cabinet with 2 doors on it (unless electrician says this is not to code, then will place it below the cabinet), keeping doors closed when not in use?

- Checked my electric bill and it is showing charges of roughly $0.15/kWh for the first 300kWh and then $0.11/kWh for anything above before some connection fees and riders (no indication of it being cheaper at night), while local stations (EVgo/EA) showing roughly $0.47/kWh before 99 cents connect charge. Could someone tell me roughly how many kWhs needed to charge the Taycan from 20% to 80% at home with larger battery that I will have to have an idea of a cost per charge cycle? I assume it is as simple as kWhs x $/kWh. I do not want to surprise the wife with elevated electric bill since I only looked at it just now. Current usage showing as 793 kWh last month.

 

[daveo4EV]

20-80% is 60% delta - 83.4 kwh * .6 = 50.4 kWh - with 10% charging overhead that's 55 - let's call it 60 kWh worse case.

some math…

• 60 kWh * 0.15 = $9
• 60 kwh * 2.7 miles/kwh = 162 miles driving
• $9 / 162 miles = $0.055 cost per-mile driven - yes a nickle per mile
• $4.00 gallon gasoline / 24 mpg (lucky to get that in a sports sedan 18 mpg is more common) $0.16 cost per mile driven

your electricity bill will go up - it will go up a lot depending on how much you drive - it doesn't matter because you are no longer paying for gasoline - and you electricity bill is going up by a factor of 1/3rd the cost of gasoline you are no longer purchasing - so if you used to spend $150/month on gasoline, you're going to see about a $50 rise in your electrical bill - this is normal and expected…

12,000 miles a year driven = 4,500 kWh on your electrical bill (give/take)
4,500 kWh annual increase in power consumption * $0.15/kWh = $650 annual increase in your bill
$650 annual bill change = $55/month (hey look at that)
12,000 miles a year @ 24 mpg @ $4.00 gallon = 500 gallons of fuel = $2,000 /year on gasoline = $170/month in fuel

your electricity bill WILL go up - by a LOT - but you have to remember it's 1/3rd the cost of gasoline for equivalent miles driven…so honestly it doesn't matter - your simply shifting cost from one category to another.

you're overthinking the "slow" charge thing - fast charging is defined at more than 150 kW to have any impact on the battery - the impact to the battery of 2.8 kW vs. 12 kW charge rates is statistical noise - I'd charge at 48 amp a simply be done with it - the impact to the battery from several fast charging sessions a month would greatly overwhelm any measurable impact from charging at 4 kw vs. 12 kw

your EVSE plan looks solid - the other thing I'd do is "overspec" the wire gauge so that you can easily swap breaker/EVSE to a higher capacity model in the future - if you need 6 gauge wire request 4 or 2 gauge wire - but this a nice to have vs. must have.

the 24ft cord is more than just AC power - there are control wires inside it - I'd suggest not messing with it - just coil up the unused portion.

you have a good plan, but I'd worry less about the charge rate - the car's timers/profile will take care of the battery and honestly there is nothing you can do since the car controls the battery not the external EVSE you are installing - it's just a "raw power tap" that the vehicle controls (like all EVSE's)

if possible I'd have the electrician install a NEMA 14-50 for "backup use" incase the hardwired charger ever breaks or needs replacing - NEMA 14-50 is a base line and you can charge most any EV with most any EVSE from a NEMA 14-50 - the extra circuit is not "load" unless it's being used - so having both a 60 amp EVSE and a NEMA 14-50 is _NOT_ 110 amps of load unless both are in use at the same time - as long as you only use one or the other you're not increasing your actual load - so having a NEMA 14-50 ready for backup/emergency use is cheap/easy/practical.

good luck - just plug it and an charge it - let the Porsche software and their engineers manage the battery - you trying to manage teh battery by slowing the charge rate is like pushing a rope uphill...vs. the lifetime of the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty - there is nothing _YOU_ can do to affect the battery.

 

[SergeyIndy]

@daveo4EV, this is super helpful and quick-fire answers, thank you.

* 60kWh is what I was looking for so at 15 cents x 60kWh the cost is $9 per charge at home vs. 3x at EVgo for example, if I need to charge there without EA available.
* 48Amp is the plan then to set it and forget it as output, then will manage the rest via Profile/Timer.
* Cord will not be cut, good point on the control wires, I did not think of that.
* I like the NEMA outlet idea as backup, I will talk to the electrician if that is possible to coexist with my direct wire as I may not have any more to give from the panel but the direct wire, also, I would have it as close to the panel as I do not need it in backup mode in the ideal location in the garage

 

[daveo4EV]

@daveo4EV, this is super helpful and quick-fire answers, thank you.

* 60kWh is what I was looking for so at 15 cents x 60kWh the cost is $9 per charge at home vs. 3x at EVgo for example, if I need to charge there without EA available.
* 48Amp is the plan then to set it and forget it as output, then will manage the rest via Profile/Timer.
* Cord will not be cut, good point on the control wires, I did not think of that.
* I like the NEMA outlet idea as backup, I will talk to the electrician if that is possible to coexist with my direct wire as I may not have any more to give from the panel but the direct wire, also, I would have it as close to the panel as I do not need it in backup mode in the ideal location in the garage

you're welcome - it's all going to be fine - if possible have the electrician wire a 100 amp breaker (or 60 amp if that's all your main panel can handle) to subpanel in the garage - in the sub-panel in the garage you can put two breakers - 60 amp for the hardwired EVSE - and 50 amp for the NEMA 14-50 - if you don't use both at once the actual load increase is only the 60 amp EVSE (48 amp charge rate) - a subpanel should be minimal cost and will easily let you have two breakers for the garage.

also I stopped caring about cost/kWh at fast charging years ago - I only use fast charging when time is a factor or I'm away from home (no choice) - and my perspective is I'm not paying for kWh's I'm paying for time - a friend of mine charged at EVGo the other day for $20 (super expensive right?) - well when I pointed out his $20 EVGo session saved him 8.5 hours of charging time while on the road - he suddenly no longer cared how many kWh's he actually got for that charging session. When "paying for fast charging" you're paying for your time - the cost per/kWh is a factor, but in my mind not the important one - a 150 kW EA charge session can pump 80% (~70 kWh) of your battery into your taycan in about 25 min vs. a minimum of 7 hours on your home setup or over 12 hours at a common 6 kWh public "slow" charger - @$0.41/kWh at EA that's a $30 charge to save what 11 hours of your time? Cheap cost in my opinion, super cheap cost (unless you're doing it daily).

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