ICE Taycan ?

[W1NGE]

Has Porsche announced any plans to design new ICE Macan and/or Cayenne? The old ones use an old architecture no longer legal to sell in the EU, so new ones would be a complete redesign.

The plan is to have an ICE Macan based on the EV body as the current shape (still available in UK) will die by end 2025.

The path to 100% EV has stalled for most EV manufacturers and so ICE and hybrid will prevail.. For Porsche this will inevitably mean new models / generations sharing platforms.

If the Taycan became ICE then the Panamera would be killed off (or vice versa).

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[whitex]

The plan is to have an ICE Macan based on the EV body as the current shape (still available in UK) will die by end 2025.

The path to 100% EV has stalled for most EV manufacturers and so ICE and hybrid will prevail.. For Porsche this will inevitably mean new models / generations sharing platforms.

If the Taycan became ICE then the Panamera would be killed off (or vice versa).

I somehow don't see Porsche releasing a new 2025 ICE Macan. If they do, it will be a rush job (when was the last time Porsche managed to release a new platform, which such new Macan would be sans the body, in less than 5 years?). Unless of course they've been working on it since 2020.

 

[Johan Meert]

No. The actual plan is to continue to sell the old ones for longer, instead of discontinuing them in 2025 (at least for Macan; probably Cayenne also once the EV version is out). I assume since they are old models, they technically don't have to adhere to the new regulations.

They simply cannot, at least in the EU. The ICE Macan does not comply with the new UNECE WP.29 cybersecurity regulation that takes effect in 07/2024. And we all know Porsche and software retrofitting do not mix well.

 

[Ipercool]

I can understand that the price difference in the low range between EV and ICE is an obstacle that prevents the spread of EVs regardless of other reasons.
But in the high range this price difference essentially disappears, so the poor spread of EVs in this area must have other origins.

Personally, I believe that overall, despite the fact that it is a technology with very little development behind it, an EV is better than an ICE. In our area, I believe the Taycan is better in every aspect than (for example) the corresponding Panamera. Those who drive a Taycan know this, but not many do it.

So the main problem is ignorance on the subject, many believe they know, few really know.

If Porsche is now forced to offer a patched-up ICE Macans, it will certainly not be because of the price and technical content of the EV Macans.

 

[whitex]

I can understand that the price difference in the low range between EV and ICE is an obstacle that prevents the spread of EVs regardless of other reasons.
But in the high range this price difference essentially disappears, so the poor spread of EVs in this area must have other origins.

I think you'd be surprised. Even at $100K price level people do care about an extra $500, so an extra $15,000+ will definitely tip the scales. I had this conversation with a couple of dealers, asking them why they didn't order the $500 150KW/400V option for the inventory Taycans (pre-2025) which they speced. They both told me the same thing, it's an option customers don't value and therefore they don't want to pay for it. It was before the NACS announcements and Supercharger access possibility was dangled by Porsche. One SA even told me he tried convincing his managers to "future proof" the cars they ordered, but management still saw it as something which raised the price unnecessarily. I can tell you that even though I bought a custom order Taycan CT Turbo, I would still not want to overpay by being forced to pay $500 for something I don't want. Most people who have money usually got there because they know how to do math and spend (relatively) wisely. I hear even Elon will nickel-and-dime his purchases, even though a guy's net worth can move as much as $30bn in a single day. I have friends who could easily afford an EV version of the car they are buying (or equivalent), but they calculated the savings in gas are not offsetting the price differential to an EV. One of them ended up buying a hybrid because he wanted smoother acceleration over pure ICE, but couldn't justify to himself a full EV. I've seen him drop more than the price difference between ICE and EV on a poker table on a single night, so he can definitely afford it, just won't spend it on a car. ?‍

 

[Crazymind]

Rear engine flat six. The taycan we all wanted.

 

[Zakk]

This is 100% going to be a V8 diesel generator that fits onto the Taycan bike rack and recharges it as it moves. It will also have special Porsche approved premium AdBlue taken from the pee of Austrian alpine cows.

That is exactly what I came here to write! Sounds like you saw the same bulletin.

 

[daveo4EV]

That is exactly what I came here to write! Sounds like you saw the same bulletin.

not diesel - eFuel - https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/202...ruly-sustainable-christophorus-407-33013.html

 

[Ipercool]

I think you'd be surprised. Even at $100K price level people do care about an extra $500, so an extra $15,000+ will definitely tip the scales. I had this conversation with a couple of dealers, asking them why they didn't order the $500 150KW/400V option for the inventory Taycans (pre-2025) which they speced. They both told me the same thing, it's an option customers don't value and therefore they don't want to pay for it. It was before the NACS announcements and Supercharger access possibility was dangled by Porsche. One SA even told me he tried convincing his managers to "future proof" the cars they ordered, but management still saw it as something which raised the price unnecessarily. I can tell you that even though I bought a custom order Taycan CT Turbo, I would still not want to overpay by being forced to pay $500 for something I don't want. Most people who have money usually got there because they know how to do math and spend (relatively) wisely. I hear even Elon will nickel-and-dime his purchases, even though a guy's net worth can move as much as $30bn in a single day. I have friends who could easily afford an EV version of the car they are buying (or equivalent), but they calculated the savings in gas are not offsetting the price differential to an EV. One of them ended up buying a hybrid because he wanted smoother acceleration over pure ICE, but couldn't justify to himself a full EV. I've seen him drop more than the price difference between ICE and EV on a poker table on a single night, so he can definitely afford it, just won't spend it on a car. ?‍

Uhm, in Italy Taycan ST is 106K€ and Panamera is 115K€.
Taycan ST Turbo is 182K€ and Panamera Turbo is 204K€, so Taycan is less expensive than Panamera.
Old ICE Macan and new EV Macan are not comparable at the moment as they are totally different cars.

But more important is that after you got the car here an EV has no taxes to pay.
A 600Hp ICE car pays about 7K€ per year, the same car but EV pays 0€.

At home my bill to fully charge the Taycan is about 25€. With 25€ you can buy less than 15 lt of gasoline. Easy to estimate what you can do with about 3 gallons of gasoline put in a 600Hp ICE car.

In 53.000km, excluding tyres, the cost of my Taycan standard maintenance is about 0€. No oil or air filters, no oils, no brake pads. Nothing.
Easy to estimate how much you have to pay in maintenance using a 600Hp ICE Porsche car.

Here EV market is about 4%, and next year it will be about 3%.
So, here, expeccially in the high range, people do not buy EV cars for cultural reasons, not for economic reasons.

In any case here ignorance and prejudices in this sector are very widespread. People think they know but in reality they know nothing.

 

[Garydotka]

After finally getting out of my '22 Taycan CT - mine having the persistent 'red circle of death' plague - I'd still be a buyer of another future Taycan if it were a PHEV. A little VW ICE in the front would be fine, along with a much smaller battery - one that might take the car 40-50 miles in EV mode. Notwithstanding the faulty battery and controls - I totally loved everything about the Tike CT: style, ride, and functional utility - especially as a head-turning high-style grocery getter and church-on-Sunday vehicle for my wife. Her daily use was always less than 50 miles. It would be plugged-in in our garage nightly... with free electricity from the net-metered solar panels. It would make her smile ear-to-ear when it ran (which was rare, unfortunately)... and that ofcourse made me happy too. I believe a PHEV drive train vehicle - for a multi vehicle family - would work best for well over 1/2 of potential Porsche buyers. Just ask Toyota. Most of Porsche buyers will have other ICE vehicles for long-distance (trucks, SUVs, sports cars, etc). This is Hybrid/PHEV & ICE multi-vehicle ownership model is rapidly shaping-up to make the most sense in the wide open country of the USA.... imho.

 

[W1NGE]

After finally getting out of my '22 Taycan CT - mine having the persistent 'red circle of death' plague - I'd still be a buyer of another future Taycan if it were a PHEV. A little VW ICE in the front would be fine, along with a much smaller battery - one that might take the car 40-50 miles in EV mode. Notwithstanding the faulty battery and controls - I totally loved everything about the Tike CT: style, ride, and functional utility - especially as a head-turning high-style grocery getter and church-on-Sunday vehicle for my wife. Her daily use was always less than 50 miles. It would be plugged-in in our garage nightly... with free electricity from the net-metered solar panels. It would make her smile ear-to-ear when it ran (which was rare, unfortunately)... and that ofcourse made me happy too. I believe a PHEV drive train vehicle - for a multi vehicle family - would work best for well over 1/2 of potential Porsche buyers. Just ask Toyota. Most of Porsche buyers will have other ICE vehicles for long-distance (trucks, SUVs, sports cars, etc). This is Hybrid/PHEV & ICE multi-vehicle ownership model is rapidly shaping-up to make the most sense in the wide open country of the USA.... imho.

Isn't that the Panamera Hybrid which unfortunately no longer comes in ST fornat?

 

[Garydotka]

Panamera and Taycan similar, but different too. I liked the Taycan better... but the Panny might head in the Tike's direction for style and sportiness eventually. The Panny is really an SUV/station wagon trying harder than the Macan to be a Porsche. The Tike - and especially the CT version - is more like a Porsche trying to be an ecology-correct and functional sport wagon. The Taycan got it right better than the Panamera - 'cept for its EV-only drive train.

 

[tophamn]

Panamera and Taycan similar, but different too. I liked the Taycan better... but the Panny might head in the Tike's direction for style and sportiness eventually. The Panny is really an SUV/station wagon trying harder than the Macan to be a Porsche. The Tike - and especially the CT version - is more like a Porsche trying to be an ecology-correct and functional sport wagon. The Taycan got it right better than the Panamera - 'cept for its EV-only drive train.

I came out of a Panamera Turbo-S ST eHybrid when I got my Taycan GTS. I always viewed the Panamera as a Cayenne without the stilts. Having owned a couple of the earlier 970 Panameras I was a little disappointed that the 971 had lost the over-grown 911 feel of the earlier cars - a 970 Turbo-S is a complete animal, especially in Sport+ with the exhaust flaps open; the 971 was a very rapid car but the magic of a 4-seat / 4-door sports car had gone. I feel the Taycan recaptures much of the driving excitement the 971 Panamera lost (though without the howling V8 soundtrack ?) in Porsche's move more into luxury sports-GT territory. Practically speaking the Panamera is only a tiny bit bigger on the road but it's much easier to get in and out of and feels more spacious inside.

 

[tigerbalm]

I too came from a Panamera Turbo S (971) to Taycan 4S. I was surprised at how the Taycan felt smaller - despite being wider. Think it was the visibility out the front was better without the V8 lump.

I initially was surprised at how "urgent" the Taycan 4S felt – despite being less powered. But eventually, I started to miss some of that "Turbo S" feeling and changed to a Taycan Turbo S.

With the Panamera being my first Porsche – I was also surprised at how creaky and rattly the Taycan was compared to the refined Panamera.

I think the latest Panamera is a very compelling vehicle in its current V8 + electric motor format – but it still feels like the past – despite the current wobble in EV adoption.

 

[tophamn]

I too came from a Panamera Turbo S (971) to Taycan 4S. I was surprised at how the Taycan felt smaller - despite being wider. Think it was the visibility out the front was better without the V8 lump.

I initially was surprised at how "urgent" the Taycan 4S felt – despite being less powered. But eventually, I started to miss some of that "Turbo S" feeling and changed to a Taycan Turbo S.

With the Panamera being my first Porsche – I was also surprised at how creaky and rattly the Taycan was compared to the refined Panamera.

I think the latest Panamera is a very compelling vehicle in its current V8 + electric motor format – but it still feels like the past – despite the current wobble in EV adoption.

I was very happy with my 971 Panamera Turbo S until it went in for service and I had a Taycan Turbo loan car - the rest, as they say, is history

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