Instavolt 120kw 400v chargers

[simcity]

The majority of Instavolt chargers are NOT conjoined and will nto deliver more than 62.5kW, of the screen incorrectly displays 125kW.

OK interesting.

Are you saying that the charge output noted on the Instavolt screen is false? It aligned almost perfectly (to the kW) with what the car was telling me.

There was an electric Openreach van parked next to me charging on the second unit. I didn’t look to see what he was drawing (that would be particularly nosey).

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[simcity]

Not sure it only is in the U.K. though!
I have experienced some chargers in Germany that are two cables. They state 300 kW but only deliver 150 per cable. Unfortunately our Charging Planner seem to classify them as 300 kW as well.

There is not that much difference at charging at 150 kW and full Ionity charge, but it is annoying when it happens.

Subtly different. These particular Instavolt units (made by BYD Auto) have 2 cables - one CCS2 and the other ChAdeMO. But you can only charge on one cable at a time. You choose which at the start.

However the net effect is the same - as would appear from our good friend @Englishtony2002 that these are arranged in a power sharing arrangement.

The best I could ever expect charging on my lonesome in a Tesla would be approx. 80 kW. With the chap parked next to me charging on the other unit - I would never be able to reach that lofty target, even with a toasty battery and low SoC.

 

[captainlk]

When two cars are connected the maximum power is reduced to 62.5kW and will not return to 125 even if one of the vehicles disconnects. The temp of your battery would have had an effect at the start, but explains why you only saw c. 60kW when the other car disconnected.

Great info! So if I had disconnected then reconnected again once the other car left (and I was the only one charging) would I have got more?

 

[W1NGE]

Great info! So if I had disconnected then reconnected again once the other car left (and I was the only one charging) would I have got more?

I would assume 'yes'.

 

[kurand]

I guess the likes of ZapMap et al need to start reporting the power contention ratio of charging devices on their maps so we can gauge likely charge rates based on device availability.

 

[simcity]

75p per unit for 60-ish kW is particular poor. Yet they’re rammed. Go figure.

 

[simcity]

I guess the likes of ZapMap et al need to start reporting the power contention ratio of charging devices on their maps so we can gauge likely charge rates based on device availability.

Sounds like the bad old days of oversubscribed broadband ?

 

[Englishtony2002]

OK interesting.

Are you saying that the charge output noted on the Instavolt screen is false? It aligned almost perfectly (to the kW) with what the car was telling me.

There was an electric Openreach van parked next to me charging on the second unit. I didn’t look to see what he was drawing (that would be particularly nosey).

On some occasions the configuration in incorrect and shows 125 when not conjoined.

 

[Englishtony2002]

I would assume 'yes'.

Yep

 

[Englishtony2002]

I'm still not convinced (sorry) something else is at play here.

Why would Instavolt (Costa, McDonalds, others) be rolling out these units since 2019 where only a single brand of vehicle at that time could take advantage of it - Taycan has been the only 800v vehicle until Kia came along. These vehicles would have been a trickle in terms of volume.

I suspect some wizardry happens to up the output to help reach the target outputs quoted otherwise what is the point of these units - they're at the slow end of fast and not many customers able to take full advantage.

Worth probing Instavolt again?

Worth getting folk with / without the DC converter to try these units to satisfy our collective curiosity as we are still a little in the dark on that front too.

All of the early Instavolt units , at least 300 of them (made by Tritium, the ones without the screen) are all single and Limited to around 44kW. The output power is governed by current capability. They supply constant current until the battery reaches its nominal operating voltage (400 or 800v). A depleted battery will have a nominal voltage of c. 325-350v. At a constant current the depleted battery will charge at a lower kW rate, as the voltage approaches 400v the delivery changes to constant voltage, the current gradually reducing as a result of the BMS.

 

[simcity]

On some occasions the configuration in incorrect and shows 125 when not conjoined.

If the cars own numbers match (or near enough) then it must be correct. The car measures the voltage and current - it’s not simply rehashing what the EVSE says is the case.

If the EVSE is displaying double the charge rate it’s actually delivering - how does that affect the billing /amount of energy charged by the EVSE.

That part doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Englishtony2002]

Has no effec

If the cars own numbers match (or near enough) then it must be correct. The car measures the voltage and current - it’s not simply rehashing what the EVSE says is the case.

If the EVSE is displaying double the charge rate it’s actually delivering - how does that affect the billing /amount of energy charged by the EVSE.

That part doesn’t make sense to me.

Has no effect on cost/price, you pay for what you get, just the rate of delivery that is affected.

 

[simcity]

All of the early Instavolt units , at least 300 of them (made by Tritium, the ones without the screen) are all single and Limited to around 44kW. The output power is governed by current capability. They supply constant current until the battery reaches its nominal operating voltage (400 or 800v). A depleted battery will have a nominal voltage of c. 325-350v. At a constant current the depleted battery will charge at a lower kW rate, as the voltage approaches 400v the delivery changes to constant voltage, the current gradually reducing as a result of the BMS.

Are these units 200-500v DC output only?

 

[simcity]

Keep testing - much appreciated - 99% conclusive now I'd say.

Would you have expected closer to 80kW rather than 60kW?

Further testing…on the 400V scenario.

So I was south of the river this afternoon in Woolwich, with a warm and thirsty Tesla. I stopped by the Instavolt at McDonalds Woolwich. Only me charging the other charger empty, so no splitting, full power (apparently). On my short charge stop, the maximum I could pull was 71 kW, and an average of 70 kW (charger screen reported 68.82 kW). The Tessie app tells me the car was drawing a peak of 198 amps at an average of 355V (by dint of low SoC of around 12%). So yeah as I suspected those Instavolts are 100% current limited to 200A. The 120 kWh headline rate is simply not possible at 400V nominal.

After 10 minutes, had enough of that malarkey and couldn’t face a BigMac so headed a mile down the road to the Fastned station. What a difference - proper 300 kW chargers not the poxy Instavolts. even with a higher SoC immediately saw 130 kW with a Kia plugged in and charging off the same unit!

A proper fast charging station and cheaper than Instavolt!

Finally found some hunger (and a need to charge quickly and for free) so drove to the Greenwich Tesla Supercharger. Empty. Sat down in the lounge at the Intercontinental - laptop to catch up with emails, tea with some macaroons. Car charging away happily, peak of 124 kW, higher SoC, but free leccy. A nice charging experience at Tesla it must be said.

So next week, if I can wrestle the Taycan from
my other half, shall try some 800V charging. Perhaps with more macaroons!! ?

 

[W1NGE]

Further testing…on the 400V scenario.

So I was south of the river this afternoon in Woolwich, with a warm and thirsty Tesla. I stopped by the Instavolt at McDonalds Woolwich. Only me charging the other charger empty, so no splitting, full power (apparently). On my short charge stop, the maximum I could pull was 71 kW, and an average of 70 kW (charger screen reported 68.82 kW). The Tessie app tells me the car was drawing a peak of 198 amps at an average of 355V (by dint of low SoC of around 12%). So yeah as I suspected those Instavolts are 100% current limited to 200A. The 120 kWh headline rate is simply not possible at 400V nominal.

After 10 minutes, had enough of that malarkey and couldn’t face a BigMac so headed a mile down the road to the Fastned station. What a difference - proper 300 kW chargers not the poxy Instavolts. even with a higher SoC immediately saw 130 kW with a Kia plugged in and charging off the same unit!

A proper fast charging station and cheaper than Instavolt!

Finally found some hunger (and a need to charge quickly and for free) so drove to the Greenwich Tesla Supercharger. Empty. Sat down in the lounge at the Intercontinental - laptop to catch up with emails, tea with some macaroons. Car charging away happily, peak of 124 kW, higher SoC, but free leccy. A nice charging experience at Tesla it must be said.

So next week, if I can wrestle the Taycan from
my other half, shall try some 800V charging. Perhaps with more macaroons!! ?

Outstanding...keep going, we need these real life data points!

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