Is Porsche in a World of Hurt With EV Production?

Archimedes

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From an overall management point of view it seems Porsche is not handling these critical issues that are holding back increased sales very well. It doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the management organization and roll out of new products moving forward.
:CWL: You think the supply chain issues were within Porsche’s control and they just did a poor job managing them? And you lack confidence in the management team leading the second most profitable car company on the planet?

That’s like saying the Ukrainians are doing a poor job managing the power grid in Kyiv at the moment.
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bah1590

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:CWL: You think the supply chain issues were within Porsche’s control and they just did a poor job managing them? And you lack confidence in the management team leading the second most profitable car company on the planet?

That’s like saying the Ukrainians are doing a poor job managing the power grid in Kyiv at the moment.
I assume you are referring to the VW group not Porsche as there are many car companies with more profit than Porsche. What I am saying is there are ways to mitigate the effect supply chain issues have and after over a year they should have a better handle on these issues. A tell tale sign is not being able to deliver cars because you don't have 12V batteries. How much more would their profit be if they could deliver all the cars people are waiting months or more to receive?
 

Dee

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I recently saw this video and was surprised to hear how badly PAG is doing with respect to producing and selling the Taycan.

Thoughts about what is going on? I have not seen Porsche struggle like this since the 1990's.

Haha, you're doing exactly what he wants: spreading the word.
I bet he gets even more views now.
Well done sir, well done.
Stop making stupid people famous.
 

JimBob

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For some weird reason people want to be followers, lemmings, sheeples whatever and then they wonder why it went wrong.
 
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FlyingPoint

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:CWL: You think the supply chain issues were within Porsche’s control and they just did a poor job managing them? And you lack confidence in the management team leading the second most profitable car company on the planet?

That’s like saying the Ukrainians are doing a poor job managing the power grid in Kyiv at the moment.
While you make a great point here, however your analogy is not quite the same. Ukraine made much of the harnesses for German OEM's. I have not heard of cars sitting awaiting harnesses. I read on this forum that there are 12V battery and chip shortages. Interestingly, I don't hear 12V battery shortages for other OEM's, but perhaps I am not up to speed.

The following are all reflective on VW and PAG's management and its ability to manage EV development and support of their vehicles such as:
  1. No OTA updates for most after indicating there would be. In three weeks, it will be 2023, they rolled out the Taycan in 2020.
  2. The wonderful EA charging infrastructure that we all love and just can't live without.
  3. Substantial problems with the Cariad group causing the delay of the Macan EV, not to mention our software issues (12V battery discharge for one).
  4. Less than acceptable customer support regarding software issues from day one and from what I read on this forum continuing to this day. I am NOT referring to lack of parts, but lack of technical resources to timely fix software issues at the dealer level.
  5. The EVSE (Porsche Mobile Connect and Connect Plus) problem, which is a real safety concern. Their solution is not to replace but degrade the units by 50% making them useless IMO.
 


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FlyingPoint

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Haha, you're doing exactly what he wants: spreading the word.
I bet he gets even more views now.
Well done sir, well done.
Stop making stupid people famous.
I don't know this gentlemen and have no affiliation with him. It was the first time I ever viewed any of his content.

What I find truly amazing is the many people who weighed in have bashed this guy, but I have not seen anyone refute the content as being false.
 

ThePaddyWan

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Tried not to watch the video since this guy's been posted before, but, definitely sounds like it's a clickbait video. Numbers don't like, but you can always choose the numbers you present and omit in your presentation. Porsche definitely doesn't have a demand issue, definitely it's all on the supply side. You can clearly see it with all the folks waiting for their allocations and cars to be completed.
 

philbur

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All clickbait and they do this to every company - they look at the company in isolation - oh no! they are down 30%, they are a failure.. no zooming out with this being a whole market scenario and we have a massive pandemic hangover. up 30% (life is great! pretty much FREE money and wayyyy too much of it!) and not down 30% (everyone is a failure!) .. if you zoom out we are actually trending with the normal pace of growth and is strong with the pandemic in there - it shattered a lot of what we had and had to be rebuilt. Still got another 2-3 years of getting things working again and then driving efficiencies.

phil.
 


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I don't know this gentlemen and have no affiliation with him. It was the first time I ever viewed any of his content.

What I find truly amazing is the many people who weighed in have bashed this guy, but I have not seen anyone refute the content as being false.
It’s not that the specific content is false, factually yes there is a decline in deliveries in 2022 due to supply chain and other issues (FYI most recently it’s because the factory that produced the Taycan-specific 12V battery burned down). But its the implications and tone of his videos that I take issue with. By the title alone, an uninformed viewer would think there is some sort of disaster that demand has significantly dropped, and Porsche won’t be viable long-term in the EV game. IE it’s clickbait - trying to make issues or events seem much more impactful than they are. The specific numbers he is referencing aren’t false, but what he is trying to imply is misleading at best

The things you pointed out re: OTA updates, EA infrastructure, EVSE, etc. are all valid criticisms of VW/PAG’s EV development, but they have little to do with the video’s key points. They are issues that they should address, for sure, but aren’t huge unsolvable problems. Some are more minor annoyances than other (like the crappy EVSE), and others are being actively worked on (like EA charging infrastructure)
 

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Interestingly, I don't hear 12V battery shortages for other OEM's, but perhaps I am not up to speed.
My understanding: The Taycan uses a relatively unusual sized 12-volt battery that was manufactured by A123 Systems in Czech Republic, where they had a fire which impacted (halted?) production.

Porsche is now sourcing these batteries direct from Japan but it took a while to find a new supplier.
 

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What I find truly amazing is the many people who weighed in have bashed this guy, but I have not seen anyone refute the content as being false.
The internet is awash with chancers trying to lure people in to generating them revenue by giving them attention. 5 minutes watching one of his previous videos was enough to convince me that this guy is one of them. He is not a credible source of information, I feel no obligation to spend any of my time debating his content. I'm happy with the risk of missing anything useful he might have to say.
EDIT- I'm surprised that needs spelling out.
 

Tsingtao

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I recently saw this video and was surprised to hear how badly PAG is doing with respect to producing and selling the Taycan.

Thoughts about what is going on? I have not seen Porsche struggle like this since the 1990's.

The electric viking apparently has a short circuit in his little viking brain. Or perhaps he has just been too busy raping, pillaging and plundering to notice that there are global supply chain problems that are nowhere near resolved.
 

WasserGKuehlt

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:CWL: You think the supply chain issues were within Porsche’s control and they just did a poor job managing them? And you lack confidence in the management team leading the second most profitable car company on the planet?
The truth is we don't know. It seems that Porsche was beset, during 2022, by supply issues of several different components. Even leaving aside the harnesses (Ukraine), they've had (rumored) shortages in: plain-vanilla audio equipment, 12V batteries, roof dimmer (newly-introduced feature), and even plain roof bars. That reeks of single-supplier/high-risk dependencies, which do not seem to have affected competitors like MB or BMW, and would indeed be a management issue. The fact that they remain highly profitable does not imply their management is flawless, just that the product remains desirable.

The caveats:
- as a smaller company/producer of a lower number of units (compared to its rivals), I can appreciate that P may not have the leverage to secure multiple suppliers, or go to the less-risky ones. I am not assuming that they're leveraging all of VAG's negotiating power, since (these) P cars are not built from the parts bin
- for sure the management does a lot with what they have. For me, a warning signal was the variable light roof - here's a brand-new, high-priced, niche feature, that ran into availability issues within months of introduction. HowTF have you not secured at least one year's supply of what's going to be low 10s-100s of sales?
- this is pure speculation, but I suspect some of these shortages are actually 'beta' recall-class bugs. If, hypothetically, it was (somehow) determined that Felicity was attributed to the aux battery, a fix + remanufacturing batteries would definitely cause what we've seen over the summer.
 

WasserGKuehlt

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What I find truly amazing is the many people who weighed in have bashed this guy, but I have not seen anyone refute the content as being false.
Several who have refuted the content made the point, but perhaps too subtly. It's not that the data is incorrect, it's that it doesn't support the conclusion. Quite simple, really.
 

whitex

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I read on this forum that there are 12V battery and chip shortages. Interestingly, I don't hear 12V battery shortages for other OEM's, but perhaps I am not up to speed.
I'm pretty sure the 12V battery Taycan is using is a custom design, so cannot compare with other OEM's. IIRC there was a fire that affected that factory.

The following are all reflective on VW and PAG's management and its ability to manage EV development and support of their vehicles such as:
  1. No OTA updates for most after indicating there would be. In three weeks, it will be 2023, they rolled out the Taycan in 2020.
  2. The wonderful EA charging infrastructure that we all love and just can't live without.
  3. Substantial problems with the Cariad group causing the delay of the Macan EV, not to mention our software issues (12V battery discharge for one).
  4. Less than acceptable customer support regarding software issues from day one and from what I read on this forum continuing to this day. I am NOT referring to lack of parts, but lack of technical resources to timely fix software issues at the dealer level.
  5. The EVSE (Porsche Mobile Connect and Connect Plus) problem, which is a real safety concern. Their solution is not to replace but degrade the units by 50% making them useless IMO.
Every company has some problems. The guy from this video however is the one that makes mountains out of mole hills. Not long ago he had a video implying up to 60% of Taycans produced have experienced battery fires which were all skillfully covered up by Porsche. The issues you mention are valid issues, but do not imply "world of hurt". Tesla does a lot of stupid things, for example they removed ultrasonic sensors from cars currently being delivered, but the software to replace their functionality for park assist and other functions is not yet ready to deploy. When I bought one of my Teslas, they did exact the same thing and the functionality parity did not come until 3 years later, with ANY of the removed functionality not available for 11 months (automatic headlights and rain-sensing wipers took that long to come back after 2016 removal of light and rain sensors). And yet for the 7 years since then Tesla kept on making more and more sales (and many more customer frustrating decisions, I invite you to read TMC forum if you're interested).
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