Porsche planning more cuts to offset weak sales, U.S. tariffs - report

[daveo4EV]

Porsche is not low volume. In 2024, Porsche delivered a total of 310,718 vehicles worldwide. Porsche is trying to sell as many cars as they can with high margin.

VW sold 9,000,000'ish vehicle's world wide in 2024
Audi sold 1,700,000'ish vehicle's world wide in 2024
BMW sold 2,100,000'ish vehicle's world wide in 2024
Ford sells 750,000 F-Series pickup trucks annually - 2x Porsche's entire product line in one pickup truck line…
etc…

Porsche annual volume is 1/2 of Ford's F-series pickup trucks…

Porsche is low volume - mass manufactured - Ferarri sells 5,000 vehicle's a year

Porsche by any standard of modern vehicle maker is low'ish volume - successful but low volume - high margin - in past years _THE_ most profitable brand world wide (not sure in more recent years) - but they are "low volume" for a mass produced product where competitive volumes are measured annually in the millions

Panamera sales in the US in Q2 were 1000'ish unit's - that's a terrible week of sales for any other car vendor - and that's 3 months of sales for Porsche on one model.

I'll stand by my "low volume" assessment - and their pricing is now matching vehicles that sold in quantities of less than 15,000 unit's a quarter - they are not on the right path.

Sponsored

 

[FlyingPoint]

VW sold 9,000,000'ish vehicle's world wide in 2024
Audi sold 1,700,000'ish vehicle's world wide in 2024
BMW sold 2,100,000'ish vehicle's world wide in 2024
Ford sells 750,000 F-Series pickup trucks annually - 2x Porsche's entire product line in one pickup truck line…
etc…

Porsche annual volume is 1/2 of Ford's F-series pickup trucks…

Porsche is low volume - mass manufactured - Ferarri sells 5,000 vehicle's a year

Porsche by any standard of modern vehicle maker is low'ish volume - successful but low volume - high margin - in past years _THE_ most profitable brand world wide (not sure in more recent years) - but they are "low volume" for a mass produced product where competitive volumes are measured annually in the millions

Panamera sales in the US in Q2 were 1000'ish unit's - that's a terrible week of sales for any other car vendor - and that's 3 months of sales for Porsche on one model.

I'll stand by my "low volume" assessment - and their pricing is now matching vehicles that sold in quantities of less than 15,000 unit's a quarter - they are not on the right path.

Panamera sales in the US in Q2 were 1000'ish unit's - that's a terrible week of sales for any other car vendor - and that's 3 months of sales for Porsche on one model.

Can't imagine that you can turn the lights on to produce anything at that volume.

 

[daveo4EV]

found this interesting:

https://apple.news/A9JQRMAB0TO-a7vrVUflm4A

In numbers, the Elon Musk-owned automaker sold just 4,306 Cybertrucks in the second quarter of 2025, according to the latest data from Cox Automotive's Kelley Blue Book — a stunning 50.8 percent nosedive from the same period last year.

the cybertruck is largely regarded as a sales disaster these days (I agree and have never liked it or understood what it's appeal was) - it's sales have been falling off a cliff and is a world wide "failed product"

but this "failed" product by any stretch of the imagination - sold 4.x more units in Q2 vs the Porsche Panamera

no judgement - just context.

 

[Fish Fingers]

Personally, I think its difficult to appear too premium when they share things amongst the VAG group.

The stand alone models are more desirable than the ones shared with Audi to me.

So a flat six 911 is more appealing than say a base Macan, which is shared with an Audi Q5 platform with a GTI/S3 engine.

One is a Porsche, the other just another VAG car. But the latter devalues the whole brand.

Just my thinking.

 

[daveo4EV]

Personally, I think its difficult to appear too premium when they share things amongst the VAG group.

The stand alone models are more desirable than the ones shared with Audi to me.

So a flat six 911 is more appealing than say a base Macan, which is shared with an Audi Q5 platform with a GTI/S3 engine.

One is a Porsche, the other just another VAG car. But the latter devalues the whole brand.

Just my thinking.

you're not wrong - but the Macan and Cayenne "allow" the 911 to exist - with out their sales there would be no 911…it's a tricky tricky position Porsche is in.

 

[voksic]

EV sales are better than ever...

https://eu-evs.com/brandCharts/PORSCHE/ALL_HIGH_DQ/YoY-Chart

 

[Caraholic]

Plain and simple they have overpriced their entire model line ups. As a lover of Porsche I am out of buying their new cars. It’s not that I can’t afford them it’s I just don’t think they are worth their current MSRPs. No way is a base 911 worth more then a used Mac or Ferrari.

 

[DerekS]

Want to know why your sales are dropping, Porsche?
You've priced your fans out of the market.

I've had 8 Porsches over the years, starting with a brand new Boxster.
Over the years I've had 3 Boxsters (all new), 3 911s, (1 year low mile CPOs) and 2 Taycans (new).

I went to look at speccing out a Targa the other day and what was a 114K car for me as a CPO is now close to 200K new and OVER that used.

This isn't about affordability, it's about me having a personal threshold for how much money I'm willing to drive around, exposing it to hazards, vandalism, wrecks etc.

I've also heard rumors (I have not confirmed this, so take with salt) of dealers withholding allocations on desirable cars unless you purchase their less desirable cars first. If true, this is Ferrari-level bullshit that I want no part of, ever.

TLDR: Porsches used to be expensive but worth the fun factor for the spend. Now they are wannabe supercars.

 

[Der-Schwabe]

I share the concern but is it just Porsche that is facing headwinds in a perfect storm brewing?

This Chinese market for BEVs turning, if you like, inwards, though not everything is looking rosy with BEV oversupply potentially creating it's own issues as this article suggests:

"(…) a saturation of manufacturers is having a crushing impact on China's domestic market. Oversupply has resulted in overwhelmed competition, sparking a debilitating price war that some experts say could overflow into the UK market. Others believe it will result in a 'bloodbath' of Chinese brands, with around only one in ten existing marques likely to survive."

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-14876095/Is-Chinese-EV-bubble-burst.html

The frequently mentioned (not just in this thread) Xiaomi appears to be struggling with problems of it's own:

"China's Xiaomi is telling customers of its new YU7 electric sports utility vehicle they will have to wait more than a year to receive their cars, sparking a fresh wave of complaints against the company."

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...wait-delivery-sparking-complaints-2025-07-01/

Back at the (US) ranch, the current US administration's decision to end the federal tax credit for EVs on September 30th (and also to stop Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards) is hardly going to drive BEV sales in the US upwards. How is this going to affect Lucid's moderate increase of 6% sales with 3,309 vehicles delivered in the second quarter of this year? Also, anyone want to take a guess how many vehicles Lucid sold in Germany so far this year (January to June)? A 'staggering' 73 Lucid Air vehicles (looking at the KBA figures). It beat Tesla. They only sold 58 Model S units in the same period in Germany.

https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/02/l...s-ev-maker-pushes-to-ramp-gravity-production/

So is Lucid going to reduce prices to sell more Lucid vehicles? Nope, again, the current US administration's policies are driving prices up, Lucid has warned.

"(...) the American car manufacturer is eager to localize more of its supply chain. One step it has taken is signing a deal with Graphite One to increase its supply of graphite that’s processed in the United States. Despite these efforts, the global nature of its supply chain will make the Air and Gravity more expensive to produce. “For the American consumers, vehicles are going to be more expensive under the tariff regime,” he told Bloomberg Television. “There’s no other way around it. Yes, you can say you just need to localize. But, that still increases the cost as there’s a reason why the supply chain is so global because certain things are either not available here in the US, or are just very expensive, so you import them.”"

https://www.carscoops.com/2025/07/you-might-pay-more-even-for-an-american-made-ev/

A look at Porsche's competitor Mercedes, the same policies have led to the EQ models (EQS, EQE etc.) being removed from production at it's Alabama and South Carolina plants.

"Mercedes will end production of all four U.S.-market EQ products (excluding the EQB), starting on September 1."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a65450365/mercedes-cuts-eq-pricing-ends-us-production/

https://www.motor1.com/news/766348/mercedes-benz-eq-pricing-2026/

 

[Jonathan S.]

Their business model was to price cars for the middle-upper class; doctors, engineers etc. [...]

Although we've all gotten sidetracked on the Ferrari compare/contrast, I think this quoted excerpt sums it up well.
Porsche pricing seems to be straying from adding a sizable differential to their German competition (MB, BMW, and corporate cousin Audi) to becoming its own category.

Out of curiosity, I spec’ed out a 4CT comparable to the highest trim of the new S6 etron.
Porsche came out ~60% more expensive than its VAG cousin.
And that’s omitting PAR and RAS that would further increase the handling divide between the two models. (Also no sport chrono on the Taycan.)

Besides the handling, is a 4CT really any better than the S6 etron? (A batch of A6 and S6 video reviews debuted a couple weeks ago, but any driving impressions are thus far embargoed.)

Okay, so the driving position on the Taycan is amazing, whereas the S6 is just … normal.
And the Taycan looks otherworldly, in a good way, whereas the S6 looks otherworldly in the typical aero-optimized EV lozenge.

But if I were looking to buy new (which I'm not!) a mid-size EV non-SUV/CUV yet with a hatch, and also wanted adjustable-height suspension, 40-20-40 rear seat split, not a Tesla, that 60% price differential seems hard to justify for the middle-upper class (or is that, upper-middle class?) buyer who has the money yet also doesn't have unlimited money.

 

[laua]

Their business model was to price cars for the middle-upper class; doctors, engineers etc.

But they kept raising prices to close to Ferrari level. The difference is they are not Ferrari. Not only that, competition from China offering better and cheaper cars.

A 2 year old could have told them it’s not going to work to over price your cars without offering what Ferrari offers, which they never will

Same issue with most European luxury brands ie - Chanel and LV. Below excerpt from FT - emphasis mine.

“Chanel, founded by designer Coco Chanel, has pushed through some of the sharpest price increases in the luxury industry in recent years, leading some customers to complain of a disconnect between price tags and product creativity and quality.

For example, the price of a classic Chanel flap bag has more than doubled to top €10,000 since 2019, compared with a 50 per cent rise in the average price of luxury goods, according to analysts at HSBC.”

 

[FlyingPoint]

Out of curiosity, I spec’ed out a 4CT comparable to the highest trim of the new S6 etron.
Porsche came out ~60% more expensive than its VAG cousin.
And that’s omitting PAR and RAS that would further increase the handling divide between the two models. (Also no sport chrono on the Taycan.)

For perspective:

I just leased a 2026 Model Y Juniper to replace an aging SUV. Don't get me wrong, the Y is no Taycan but my Taycan's MSRP was over 165k. The Y was 41K (with incentives). That's less than 25% of MSRP of the Taycan. It would be ridiculous to compare the two cars, but it is undeniable - they both bring you from point A to B.

 

[Jonathan S.]

For perspective:

I just leased a 2026 Model Y Juniper to replace an aging SUV. Don't get me wrong, the Y is no Taycan but my Taycan's MSRP was over 165k. The Y was 41K (with incentives). That's less than 25% of MSRP of the Taycan. It would be ridiculous to compare the two cars, but it is undeniable - they both bring you from point A to B.

Takes a brave man to admit to driving a Tesla on a Taycan forum!
Although seriously, I do agree, Tesla is an amazing value.
Part of that is how Tesla is extremely decontented so incremental per-unit production costs must be far lower than anyone else. And production runs are simplified via only no variation. Plus of course the DTC sales model.
Porsche by contrast takes the exact opposite approach, with each Taycan a unique creation.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Also Dealers were pigs - selling cars over MSRP and adding overpriced dealer add ons . Post Covid Porsche has been a different company. I would also add that other automakers not just the Chinese have upped their game in improving their cars handling and quality. BMW electric

As much as I dislike car dealerships and the entire system of independently owned car dealerships, and as much as I dislike writing anything that can be considered even remotely supportive of aforementioned dealerships and systems ...
... what were they supposed to do otherwise when the MSRP was not the market-clearing price?

Sure, de facto ADMs are sleazy.
(Yes, I'm looking at you in particular Mr. 15 percentage-point boost in N2 content!)

But straightforward ADMs, in what other context is a retailer prohibited from charging the market-clearing price despite what the producer / wholesaler / distributor predicted?
(Regulations used to prohibit discounted pricing.)

The alternatives would be ... what, widespread arbitrage opportunities for flipping in zero-tax states? ... or even more car shortages than we actually experienced?

 

[daveo4EV]

Takes a brave man to admit to driving a Tesla on a Taycan forum!
Although seriously, I do agree, Tesla is an amazing value.
Part of that is how Tesla is extremely decontented so incremental per-unit production costs must be far lower than anyone else. And production runs are simplified via only no variation. Plus of course the DTC sales model.
Porsche by contrast takes the exact opposite approach, with each Taycan a unique creation.

Tesla is a "value" product - it's a great choice for it's market segment - and honestly the best choice in that segment in my opinion if you want 1994 Toyota Corolla level of quality and functionality…good choice good price.

Sponsored