Taycan 4S -> Taycan Turbo S

[f1eng]

So basically ceramic brakes on a road car are pointless/for aesthetic reasons only. And probably on any track car other than an F1 car as well!

They are probably better on a heavy car if you do track days. On the public road probably not. Cast Iron certainly used to have better bite when cold too but that may have been fixed by now. If not it is still probably a better bet for normal road car use.

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[daveo4EV]

So basically ceramic brakes on a road car are pointless/for aesthetic reasons only. And probably on any track car other than an F1 car as well!

it depends…

• people purchase PCCB"s because they are better
• the question is "how" are they better
• most people associate "better brakes" with "better stopping distance"
  • PCCB's do not offer "better" stopping distance - they can't - only your tire grip level and road adhesion characteristics can improve deceleration and therefore reduce distance
  • and remember once you are at tire grip thresholds ABS kicks in to allow the tires to rotate to maintain steering under panic braking
    • so ABS will "normalize" stopping distance to the limits of your tires grip level - it does that by design.
• Porsche marketing makes no effort to "correct" this misconception by 99% of their PCCB buyers

PCCB's are unquestionably the premier braking system available for production automobiles today. They are 100% factually better than cast-iron.

but not in a way you can encounter their superiority in any road legal (or even extra-legal) fashion with street tires.

PCCB's super powers are:

• excessive thermal endurance - it's nearly impossible to overheat them
• light weight - which is huge physics saving for something on a vehicle that has rotational mass

so they are not pointless if you are purchasing them for:

1. their vastly greater thermal endurance
2. their superior weight characteristics
3. no brake dust
4. their appearance

#1 in my mind has the biggest potential to be beneficial on a road car - we've all experience brake fade - so it would make sense that PCCB's should be better, and they are in fact better. The problem here is that Porsche's cast-iron brake are so good - that its hard to overwhelm Porsche's excellent cast-iron brakes in a road car without tracking it. In practice there is no circumstance under which while driving on public roads that you'll really honestly "tax" Porsche's cast-iron themal limits - i.e. you will have maximum braking performance under nearly all circumstances, and in circumstances where you would not have that I'm going to argue PCCB's wouldn't solve those problems either.

So while #1 is the strongest candidate for actual benefit on a road car, in practice it's nearly impossible outside of track use to actually get Porsche's cast-iron brake to their thermal limits in any foreseeable driving scenario.

#2 is also a factual benefit of PCCB's - I"m going to argue on a 5,1000 lbs road car with 750 kg battery, leather, glass roof, passenger display, road noise insulation, extra cooling capacity, and AC/DC charger & DC charger, etc…that weight is not what we're optimizing for - and the savings are irrelevant in the context of a road car with high efficient low grip tires to improve range.

#3 - hmmmm - really a necessity on a vehicle with 90% regen handling stopping most of the time?

#4 - if you want the look, buy the look.

so the question isn't "are they pointless" - the question is why are buying them?

the reason I discuss this is…in my opinioin most people that are purchasing PCCB"s because they are better brakes - are not achieving what they think they are achieving. Which mostly is better stopping distance - that is actually the one thing they are _NOT_ getting…which in my mind is the most brilliant Porsche marketing achievement of modern times. And they are not a cheap option.

this being on a forum that has nearly escalated to death threats because I'm known to suggest that one should spend $460 on a 400V/150 kW fast DC charging option that will saving you time should you encounter a 400V/150 kW charger…with people opining they need to save the money "cause it will never be used".

but $7000 PCCB's - sign me up!!!!! I gotta have those, they are better brakes...on a vehicle with 90% regen.

you'll have a better chance of using the $460 400V/150 kW charging option, than you will in tapping the PCCB's super powers vs. Porsche's excellent cast iron brakes.

the ONE clear advantage of PCCB's on a road car would be track use where one is using the brakes enough and hard enough that thermal capacities can factually be reached and often reached, and routinely reached with lots of experience and factual examples that you can in fact thermally saturate cast-iron brakes on track in "normal" scenario's - that would seem to make them a slam dunk for a heavy vehcile such as the Taycan if you plan to track the Taycan. That is until you (and I) realize the Taycan does not have enough battery thermal or power-capacity stamina to be on track long enough to matter in this context…you only have "enough" battery to run the Taycan flat out for about 20 minutes - in my experience at a wide range of tracks across the world - that's really not enough time to tax _ANY_ of Porsche's brake systems. If you do make your Taycan last on track more than 20 minutes - well then I'll argue you're not at the limits of the Taycan and again that means you're not taxing the brakes cause you're leaving performance on the table.

Given a basic on track time of about 20 min at full pace, there is no need for a brake system with high thermal endurance such as PCCB's…

so why PCCB's on a Taycan? well then it comes down to:

looks, brake dust, and having "the best". it's your $7000 - make an informed purchase decision.

so if you're purchasing PCCB's for your Taycan buy them for the following reasons:

1. they are in fact the best brakes money can buy for a production automobile
2. they have been engineered by Porsche to look great
3. zero brake dust
4. they are lighter than cast-iron on your 5,100 lbs Taycan
5. you will never overwhelm them thermally (but you wouldn't the cast-irons either)

those are the factually reasons to purchase the $7000 PCCB option. I'd also recomend the $460 400V/150 kW charging options - we can have drinks/lunch together in a few years after driving the car around and discuss which option you actually used during your ownship period.

 

[motherheroic]

my turbo s has full blackberry and rs wheels

 

[David Baldwino]

it depends…

• people purchase PCCB"s because they are better
• the question is "how" are they better
• most people associate "better brakes" with "better stopping distance"
  • PCCB's do not offer "better" stopping distance - they can't - only your tire grip level and road adhesion characteristics can improve deceleration and therefore reduce distance
  • and remember once you are at tire grip thresholds ABS kicks in to allow the tires to rotate to maintain steering under panic braking
    • so ABS will "normalize" stopping distance to the limits of your tires grip level - it does that by design.
• Porsche marketing makes no effort to "correct" this misconception by 99% of their PCCB buyers

PCCB's are unquestionably the premier braking system available for production automobiles today. They are 100% factually better than cast-iron.

but not in a way you can encounter their superiority in any road legal (or even extra-legal) fashion with street tires.

PCCB's super powers are:

• excessive thermal endurance - it's nearly impossible to overheat them
• light weight - which is huge physics saving for something on a vehicle that has rotational mass

so they are not pointless if you are purchasing them for:

1. their vastly greater thermal endurance
2. their superior weight characteristics
3. no brake dust
4. their appearance

#1 in my mind has the biggest potential to be beneficial on a road car - we've all experience brake fade - so it would make sense that PCCB's should be better, and they are in fact better. The problem here is that Porsche's cast-iron brake are so good - that its hard to overwhelm Porsche's excellent cast-iron brakes in a road car without tracking it. In practice there is no circumstance under which while driving on public roads that you'll really honestly "tax" Porsche's cast-iron themal limits - i.e. you will have maximum braking performance under nearly all circumstances, and in circumstances where you would not have that I'm going to argue PCCB's wouldn't solve those problems either.

So while #1 is the strongest candidate for actual benefit on a road car, in practice it's nearly impossible outside of track use to actually get Porsche's cast-iron brake to their thermal limits in any foreseeable driving scenario.

#2 is also a factual benefit of PCCB's - I"m going to argue on a 5,1000 lbs road car with 750 kg battery, leather, glass roof, passenger display, road noise insulation, extra cooling capacity, and AC/DC charger & DC charger, etc…that weight is not what we're optimizing for - and the savings are irrelevant in the context of a road car with high efficient low grip tires to improve range.

#3 - hmmmm - really a necessity on a vehicle with 90% regen handling stopping most of the time?

#4 - if you want the look, buy the look.

so the question isn't "are they pointless" - the question is why are buying them?

the reason I discuss this is…in my opinioin most people that are purchasing PCCB"s because they are better brakes - are not achieving what they think they are achieving. Which mostly is better stopping distance - that is actually the one thing they are _NOT_ getting…which in my mind is the most brilliant Porsche marketing achievement of modern times. And they are not a cheap option.

the ONE clear advantage of PCCB's on a road car would be track use where one is using the brakes enough and hard enough that thermal capacities can factually be reached and often reached, and routinely reached with lots of experience and factual examples that you can in fact thermally saturate cast-iron brakes on track in "normal" scenario's - that would seem to make them a slam dunk for a heavy vehcile such as the Taycan if you plan to track the Taycan. That is until you (and I) realize the Taycan does not have enough battery thermal or power-capacity stamina to be on track long enough to matter in this context…you only have "enough" battery to run the Taycan flat out for about 20 minutes - in my experience at a wide range of tracks across the world - that's really not enough time to tax _ANY_ of Porsche's brake systems. If you do make your Taycan last on track more than 20 minutes - well then I'll argue you're not at the limits of the Taycan and again that means you're not taxing the brakes cause you're leaving performance on the table.

Given a basic on track time of about 20 min at full pace, there is no need for a brake system with high thermal endurance such as PCCB's…

so why PCCB's on a Taycan? well then it comes down to:

looks, brake dust, and having "the best". it's your $7000 - make an informed purchase decision.

so if you're purchasing PCCB's for your Taycan buy them for the following reasons:

1. they are in fact the best brakes money can buy for a production automobile
2. they have been engineered by Porsche to look great
3. zero brake dust
4. they are lighter than cast-iron on your 5,100 lbs Taycan
5. you will never overwhelm them thermally (but you wouldn't the cast-irons either)

those are the factually reasons to purchase the $7000 PCCB option. I'd also recomend the $460 400V/150 kW charging options - we can have drinks/lunch together in a few years after driving the car around and discuss which option you actually used during your ownship period.

Agree...265KW of braking ( 3 x more than a Tesla 3 ) smashing the brakes hard, time after time, generates a slight heating of the calliper, madness ....and good. Yellow paint is cheap, Cock waving has more value ENJOY, drive hard 100% of the time

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