Taycan 4S -> Taycan Turbo S

[f1eng]

http://www.porsche-code.com/PN4ESV33

This is a lovely colour spec and close to what I would choose.
I much prefer the look of the saloon but with a dog as my most frequent passenger the CT is what I am getting. I also prefer the CT wheels and the fact that a compass/altimeter is a zero cost option instead of the clock, I love to know how high I am and look at climbing and descent rate So the ST was out.

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[daveo4EV]

Not to talk over Dave, but I think his point is that you already have brakes without the option, so the upgrade is purely cosmetic (little to no practical benefit). Still nothing wrong if that’s someone’s preference.

@daveo4EV - unsprung weight? Just curious.


I always assumed markdown.

yeah - PCCB's are lighter - on a 5,100 lbs car I'm going to humbly suggest - irrelevance…but yeah maybe it matters on a 5,100 lbs street car - again not the biggest improvement one could make - if you're worried about weight - maybe the shorter range battery offers more weight savings?

 

[Jhenson29]

yeah - PCCB's are lighter - on a 5,100 lbs car I'm going to humbly suggest - irrelevance

I guess I’m asking about the weight location as unsprung weight, not necessarily as it relates to the entire car. Outside of my expertise here though, so just asking.

 

[tigerbalm]

I also prefer the CT wheels and the fact that a compass/altimeter is a zero cost option instead of the clock, I love to know how high I am and look at climbing and descent rate

I would totally spec it too if it was available. I do show the digital compass/height on the right-side "tube" but to have it on the dash there would be much better then the little used clock.

Keeping an eye on height gains too is appropriate in an EV to understand energy usage. I remember climbing 2000 meters out from Andorra and seeing the battery SOC% plummet as I climbed – but the overall navigation estimate remain pretty optimistic.

Of course when I got to the top of the mountain pass it was thousands of meters of climb down on regen – poring energy back into the battery. I think it was on that particular day's drive that I finally started to appreciate the sheer accuracy of the Taycan navigation computer range estimates and start to trust them.

Ironically – in a non EV car – that would have been a time – spending maybe 20 km of travel on the brakes that carbon ceramics would shine – but of course in a Taycan – I doubt the physical callipers bite the rotors even once!

 

[W1NGE]

This is a lovely colour spec and close to what I would choose.
I much prefer the look of the saloon but with a dog as my most frequent passenger the CT is what I am getting. I also prefer the CT wheels and the fact that a compass/altimeter is a zero cost option instead of the clock, I love to know how high I am and look at climbing and descent rate So the ST was out.

...you can display the altitude and compass heading in the rightmost tube

 

[f1eng]

Of course when I got to the top of the mountain pass it was thousands of meters of climb down on regen – poring energy back into the battery.

The PHEV Prius gains 9 miles of range on the A5 descending from Snowdonia to Bangor. Most satisfying!

 

[daveo4EV]

I guess I’m asking about the weight location as unsprung weight, not necessarily as it relates to the entire car. Outside of my expertise here though, so just asking.

PCCB's do NOT make the Taycan worse in any way shape or form - and they are amazing technology - as to how much difference they make I'm not qualified to comment - other than I don't believe you can access their primary super power - which is extreme thermal endurance with Taycan

PCCB's are the best brakes money can buy to my knowledge (others can and will call me out if I'm wrong here) - but accessing their extra capabilities is beyond most usage scenarios for virtually any street car, even when that street car is "tracked"…in the case of the Taycan I'm simplly calling out Porsche's marketing in this case to suggest they are even more useless than they other vehicles due to the Taycan's difference level of endurance for performance driving.

in the case of my GT3 - i've run with both cast-iron & PCCB's - for my level of driving on street tires at various california tracks I can start to experience some brake fade with Porsche's excellent factory stock cast-iron brakes after about 25 min of full pace driving - but it take 25 min of continuous high-performance driving to reach that point where you start to have some brake thermal limits and some degradation with the Porsche factory cast-iron brakes - Porsche's factory brakes are simply excellent and world class "off the lot"…when i've tracked the same GT3 with Porsche factory PCCB's - I experience _NO_ brake thermal stress even when being on track for up to 50 min (my personal limit for on track endurance) - so yes PCCB's are no doubt better and I've personally experienced their superiority up close and personal - but it took me over 30 min on track to find that "limit" to actually experience the benefit of PCCB's - most track days only run 25 min sessions…so...and the Taycan can't push full out for much more than 20 minutes

that analysis is the source of all my feedback/opinion - for Taycan PCCB's are un-necessary, but they certainly are not worse - just $7,000 worth of capability you simply can't access - but cosmetically, weight, and capability they are the best brake system your money can buy. Just be clear what you're purchasing, and for driving on the street there is virtually no gain as a braking system.

advantages:

• weight savings (minor) vs. 5,100 curb weight
• appearance
• no rust
• zero brake dust
  • but context of a 90% regen car with PCSB's - gain is minimal in this context
  • vs. brake dust on ICE is huge benefit if that matters to you
• longevity

make an informed decision given the 5 advantages listed above for a $7,000 option.

 

[tigerbalm]

and for driving on the street there is virtually no gain as a braking system.

There might even be a disadvantage – they tend to squeak more easily – and provide worryingly low stopping power when very wet (after wash or driving into standing water, etc).

 

[Dee]

There might even be a disadvantage – they tend to squeak more easily – and provide worryingly low stopping power when very wet (after wash or driving into standing water, etc).

It has nothing to do with carbon ceramic brakes.
Brake squealing comes from pads that meet their self-frequency and resonate against the disc.
A simple greasing will prevent that.
https://www.smailauto.com/blog/what-is-causing-my-brakes-to-squeal-at-low-speeds

Steel brakes don't brake when wet either.

 

[tutis]

Regarding the whole PCCB debate; I’d be curious to try them on a Taycan coming down a mountain road after leaving from the top with 100% charge (not unusual when I sleep in the mountains) and therefore no regen to begin with.

At a “brisk” pace coming down I can feel the standard steels on my CT4 getting a little spongier, and definitely with that hot brake smell. I’d have to try back to back with PCCB to know the difference. Maybe the steels would never go completely soft; on my 991 they never faded even after savage braking all day at Dijon Prenois. I knew they’d need replacing in less than 10k kms before the track day started. The brakes never faded but I managed to warp the rotors badly after a full day

 

[RCorsa]

I have the carbon ceramics on my turbo S and it stops much better than my last 4s with the steel brakes. I agree the brake dust issue is not as much of an issue with EVs. That said I think carbon ceramics are considered the best brakes out there for all super cars use them and are actually standard on all Ferrari. Granted they are best during high temp track days but I’m happy I have them and have I mentioned they look amazing with the e mission wheels!

 

[Jhenson29]

Regarding the whole PCCB debate; I’d be curious to try them on a Taycan coming down a mountain road after leaving from the top with 100% charge (not unusual when I sleep in the mountains) and therefore no regen to begin with.

Why charge to 100% at the top of a mountain if you know you’re heading back down? Why not calculate (or measure if you do the same drive frequently) energy recovery on descent and stop shy of 100%?

 

[f1eng]

Regarding the whole PCCB debate; I’d be curious to try them on a Taycan coming down a mountain road after leaving from the top with 100% charge (not unusual when I sleep in the mountains) and therefore no regen to begin with.

At a “brisk” pace coming down I can feel the standard steels on my CT4 getting a little spongier, and definitely with that hot brake smell. I’d have to try back to back with PCCB to know the difference. Maybe the steels would never go completely soft; on my 991 they never faded even after savage braking all day at Dijon Prenois. I knew they’d need replacing in less than 10k kms before the track day started. The brakes never faded but I managed to warp the rotors badly after a full day

I thought one of the reasons the usable capacity of the battery was less than the total was to allow a limited amount of room for regenerative braking even when fully charged.

Apart from a few motorcycles where looks are more important than performance brake discs are made from cast-iron NEVER steel, though it is common to see people refer to steel brakes, a pet hate of mine.

On racing cars the reason we went to composite brakes was weight not performance.
There is a common belief that cast iron brakes would lead to slower lap times but that has been demonstrated to be false (Williams did a comparison years ago for the FIA)
The cooling management needs to be different but the braking performance is the same.

The weight saving otoh is worth a couple of tenths of a second per lap.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

I thought one of the reasons the usable capacity of the battery was less than the total was to allow a limited amount of room for regenerative braking even when fully charged.

Apart from a few motorcycles where looks are more important than performance brake discs are made from cast-iron NEVER steel, though it is common to see people refer to steel brakes, a pet hate of mine.

On racing cars the reason we went to composite brakes was weight not performance.
There is a common belief that cast iron brakes would lead to slower lap times but that has been demonstrated to be false (Williams did a comparison years ago for the FIA)
The cooling management needs to be different but the braking performance is the same.

The weight saving otoh is worth a couple of tenths of a second per lap.

So basically ceramic brakes on a road car are pointless/for aesthetic reasons only. And probably on any track car other than an F1 car as well!

 

[John89]

IF I were to ever order another Taycan or AMG EQS, I would go carbon brakes again.

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