Taycan Charging Installation Question

[IIISaltyIII]

Hi all, apologies in advance if this question has already been discussed or answered on the forums.

I'm scheduling my electrician to install the 240v, 50 amp, NEMA 14-50 connection that Porsche recommends for charging the Taycan. This is for an incoming vehicle and I'm struggling to confirm whether having the outlet GFCI protected (which I understand is a code requirement, but not always done) is compatible with the Taycan. I've heard some vehicles will nuisance trip the GFCI breaker constantly during charging if they already have the GFCI protection built into the charger itself. I would be using the standard Porsche Mobile Charger Plus that comes by default with the vehicle and want to make sure that is compatible with a GFCI protected outlet. I've reached out to PCNA and the dealer but they haven't been able to confirm. Has anyone had this experience or similar situation?

Appreciate the help and comments!

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[daveo4EV]

only install a GFI circuit if you have to pass inspection to do so - after it passes inspection swap it for a non-GFI breaker - it should not cause a problem, but it's just less hassel if your EVSE is not on GFI breaker

or just skip the whole thing and install a hardwired 60/48 amp EVSE and leave the PMC+/PMCC alone - no GFI required for a hardwired 60 amp EVSE like the WallBox or Tesla J-1772 wall charger ($550) - and a 60 amp breaker (48 amp charge rate) will charge your Taycan 20% faster than the NEMA 14-50 EVSE.

 

[DougFrisk]

Buy a hardwired EVSE and skip the outlet entirely. There are plenty of them available at the $500 price point. No outlet, no electrical code reason for the GFCI breaker.

By the time you've removed the cost of the GFCI breaker and quality outlet you've half way paid for the $500 EVSE.

 

[Tooney]

I would be using the standard Porsche Mobile Charger Plus that comes by default with the vehicle and want to make sure that is compatible with a GFCI protected outlet.

Re: PMC+: The ultimate guide to ..... PMC+

 

[SergeyIndy]

Hi all, apologies in advance if this question has already been discussed or answered on the forums.

I'm scheduling my electrician to install the 240v, 50 amp, NEMA 14-50 connection that Porsche recommends for charging the Taycan. This is for an incoming vehicle and I'm struggling to confirm whether having the outlet GFCI protected (which I understand is a code requirement, but not always done) is compatible with the Taycan. I've heard some vehicles will nuisance trip the GFCI breaker constantly during charging if they already have the GFCI protection built into the charger itself. I would be using the standard Porsche Mobile Charger Plus that comes by default with the vehicle and want to make sure that is compatible with a GFCI protected outlet. I've reached out to PCNA and the dealer but they haven't been able to confirm. Has anyone had this experience or similar situation?

Appreciate the help and comments!

Do what everyone else just said and I just did. Direct wire into 60Amp breaker.
Too many options, I settled on the best rated by the State of Charge fellow: Emporia.

 

[mcdermottm]

Do what everyone else just said and I just did. Direct wire into 60Amp breaker.
Too many options, I settled on the best rated by the State of Charge fellow: Emporia.

I also just had 2 Emporia's installed - we also just picked up a MB EQE SUV for my wife. 2 50A breakers and hard wired. $450 each for the unit and it works very well. I originally wanted something a little more "flashy" but this unit is just as good as any other - unless it's installed in a cold weather region.

 

[hifi239]

No problems here with the Porsche MCC , or now my GrizzlE charger, on a 14-50 from a GFCI breaker. Do you have a link to where that kind of issue was reported?

 

[hifi239]

Hi all, apologies in advance if this question has already been discussed or answered on the forums.

I'm scheduling my electrician to install the 240v, 50 amp, NEMA 14-50 connection that Porsche recommends for charging the Taycan. This is for an incoming vehicle and I'm struggling to confirm whether having the outlet GFCI protected (which I understand is a code requirement, but not always done) is compatible with the Taycan. I've heard some vehicles will nuisance trip the GFCI breaker constantly during charging if they already have the GFCI protection built into the charger itself. I would be using the standard Porsche Mobile Charger Plus that comes by default with the vehicle and want to make sure that is compatible with a GFCI protected outlet. I've reached out to PCNA and the dealer but they haven't been able to confirm. Has anyone had this experience or similar situation?

Appreciate the help and comments!

No problem here with a Siemens GFCI 50 Amp breaker feeding a 14-50 outlet. I’ve charged with the Porsche MCC and now with my plug in GrizzlE. But of course hardwired is preferred if EV charging is the only thing you’ll do with the power.

 

[DougFrisk]

Do what everyone else just said and I just did. Direct wire into 60Amp breaker.
Too many options, I settled on the best rated by the State of Charge fellow: Emporia.

Ahh, well if we're sharing, here's my in progress installation. Once everything is positioned I'll get the inspector to come out and approve the rough in, then wire it.

 

[daveo4EV]

Ahh, well if we're sharing, here's my in progress installation. Once everything is positioned I'll get the inspector to come out and approve the rough in, then wire it.

looks good - pull some extra gauge wire - also if you hard wire you only need 3 wires not 4 like NEMA 14-50 - neutral is unused in 99% of EVSE's - two hots/ground is all that is required to hardwire ClipperCreek/Tesla/WallBox/ChargePoint/others…(Even Porsche's Wall Charger only requires 3 wires since it's hardwired only).

if you pull 6 gauge or 4 gauge wire I think that will pass code for a 60 amp circuit (check with an actual electrician not some random guy on the internet) - allowing a 48 amp charge rate for a standard taycan…6 gauge will 100% pass code for a hardwired 50 amp (or NEMA 14-50/6-50 install) - install a 6-50 and all you need is 3 wires also - and you can then get a $20 adapter on amazon for 6-50 to 14-50…and saves the cost of the unused 4th neutral wire (which is expensive these days).

I'm kinda "over" mobile EVSE's and the whole NEMA 14-50/6-50 drama…hardwire it and forget about it.

 

[daveo4EV]

$24 - converts a 6-50 plugs install into a 14-50 plug install…good for traveling away from home with your Mobile EVSE also.

https://www.amazon.com/14-50R-Recep...qid=1682813182&sprefix=6-50+to,aps,867&sr=8-5

 

[DougFrisk]

looks good - pull some extra gauge wire - also if you hard wire you only need 3 wires not 4 like NEMA 14-50 - neutral is unused in 99% of EVSE's - two hots/ground is all that is required to hardwire ClipperCreek/Tesla/WallBox/ChargePoint/others…(Even Porsche's Wall Charger only requires 3 wires since it's hardwired only).

if you pull 6 gauge or 4 gauge wire I think that will pass code for a 60 amp circuit (check with an actual electrician not some random guy on the internet) - allowing a 48 amp charge rate for a standard taycan…6 gauge will 100% pass code for a hardwired 50 amp (or NEMA 14-50/6-50 install) - install a 6-50 and all you need is 3 wires also - and you can then get a $20 adapter on amazon for 6-50 to 14-50…and saves the cost of the unused 4th neutral wire (which is expensive these days).

I'm kinda "over" mobile EVSE's and the whole NEMA 14-50/6-50 drama…hardwire it and forget about it.

Yep, #6 THHN in .75" conduit on a 60 amp circuit. Everything up to code and the rebate will cover the entire cost.

I'm also really happy with where I ended up putting it, it works for cars on either side of the garage and reaches out into the drive if someone with an EV visits and needs to top up.

 

[IIISaltyIII]

I have GFCI 50amp breaker and 14-50 outlet. I’ve used both the mobile charger connect and now my

No problems here with the Porsche MCC , or now my GrizzlE charger, on a 14-50 from a GFCI breaker. Do you have a link to where that kind of issue was reported?

I was reading someone's issues on Rennlist, I'll try to dig up the link. Good to know its working fine for you, appreciate the feedback!

 

[Tooney]

If you search online, there are posts and documents reporting "nuisance tripping" occurring when EVSEs (which have ground fault protection) are plugged into receptacles on circuits with GFCI breakers. Here is one such post: https://www.oregon.gov/bcd/codes-stand/Documents/sam-2022-02-ev-gfci.pdf

 

[whitex]

No problems here with the Porsche MCC , or now my GrizzlE charger, on a 14-50 from a GFCI breaker. Do you have a link to where that kind of issue was reported?

The issue using GFCI is as follows:

1. All EVSE's must have GFCI built in, per SAE J1772 standard. This means a GFCI in a wall socket to which the EVSE is connected is redundant.
2. The EVSE has to have a built-in self test. This test may or may not actually cause some ground current (on purpose, to test if it's detected by GFCI) - this depends on the EVSE implementation, but some implementations can cause intermittent tripping of a wall socket GFCI if present (which will cause your car not to charge until you reset it manually).
3. In a life of an EVSE, there will be occasional situations where it might trip. This may happen when it's raining and there may be some water in the charge port. This is foreseen by the spec, which requires all EVSE GFCI to auto-reset at some set interval schedule. The wall socket GFCI does not typically auto reset. GFCI trips will happen, perhaps more often in some scenarios than others, but they are something which is considered ok for EV's, since the EVSE is supposed to deal with it. I could see the car circuitry from a paranoid designer trip GFCI on purpose just to check the safety of charging equipment (this is purely a speculation, I have yet to hear about a car actually doing that).

@IIISaltyIII , for plug-in EVSE, I you are best to use a non-GFCI, industrial grade NEMA 14-50. Yea, it will cost you an extra cable to run AWG6 Neutral vs. NEMA 6-50, but you will avoid using adapters - again, IF I wanted a plug-in EVSE. If given a choice, I would hardwire. 60A breaker 3xAWG6 +AWG8 ground is the sweet spot in terms of cost for EVSE and the max your standard Taycan (without the upgraded charger) can use anyways.

Full disclosure, I have 2 NEMA 14-50 (non-GFCI) and 2 hardwired EVSEs in my garage (servicing 2 EVs). The NEMA 14-50's are for backup using plug-in EVSE, though I did end up for many years using one of them instead of the hardwired charger purely due to convenience (NEMA 14-50 was closer to one of the car's ports than the hardwired EVSE).

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