GM follows Ford with NACS Tesla charge port adoption -- time to ditch CCS1 (at least the physcial design)

[DerekS]

If there was any remaining doubt, the format war is now over:



Now I want Porsche to provide a port upgrade path for the DC side.

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[satchurator]

You have honestly NOT answered the question and just tried to be "funny" ! There is no fatality here but just plain facts.

What I am going to do is definitely not this, what the heck I would buy such Tesla / GM / Ford cars ... ?!?

I will go back to a 911 and get its "charging" at any gas station and contemplate its steady resale value.

I will also follow Porsche EVs news very closely. Then, when I feel I am confident I can charge a Porsche EV without too much trouble in the US, then I would do a switch back to such a car.

Enjoy the depreciation on your Taycan ...

Fatalism: The belief that events are predetermined and inevitable.

You've concluded that it's 'game over', that Taycan values will 'drop like a stone'.

My answer to your question was implicit - that it's premature to draw these conclusions and nobody should regret buying a CCS Taycan at this point.

'Comments welcome'

 

[Scandinavian]

If there was any remaining doubt, the format war is now over:



Now I want Porsche to provide a port upgrade path for the DC side.

That is one way of following the trend??

Question is though, if the chargers were very unreliable in the first place, will a different connector help that?

 

[EVmaniak]

I really recommend you to check the current value of your Taycan at your fav Porsche dealer and/or on any used car site and/or KBB.

I have done it on my side and YES their value is dropping like a stone at the moment.

You should also probably watch and see what Kyle is saying about all of this.

Again, apart from hiding behind any rhetoric, show me some concrete news or info about how well the CCS networks are going ...

Fatalism: The belief that events are predetermined and inevitable.

You've concluded that it's 'game over', that Taycan values will 'drop like a stone'.

My answer to your question was implicit - that it's premature to draw these conclusions and nobody should regret buying a CCS Taycan at this point.

'Comments welcome'

 

[DerekS]

I really recommend you to check the current value of your Taycan at your fav Porsche dealer and/or on any used car site and/or KBB.

I have done it on my side and YES their value is dropping like a stone at the moment.

While Taycan values may indeed be dropping, I really don't think the plug has anything to do with it.

I mean let's be real:

Worst case: we have to use an adapter
Best case: we get a port upgrade path

 

[EVmaniak]

ABB CCS chargers have been the most reliable for me so far in the US ...

That is one way of following the trend??

Question is though, if the chargers were very unreliable in the first place, will a different connector help that?

 

[daveo4EV]

I must admire your efforts here David!

Pulling all of that from Plugshare is one way, but the operators should have this and much more information at hand.

Have a look at a video that TeslaBjörn made some time ago on the KemPower chargers. I know it is a fairly long video, but the information that is available and can be called up is quite amazing. They could even call up an unsuccessful charging session at one station from TB’s visit! They identify the cars and also battery size etc without using the cars VIN.

So all of EA issues should be solvable and at hand. Looks more like lousy choice of hardware or/and lack of management skills and resources

agreed- the fact that EA rarely even "knows" their charging stalls are "broken" is more evidence they are simply clueless…I've been at a broken site countles times and called them and had their operator tell me it looks fine from our end...

they are just pathetic.

 

[EVmaniak]

Adapter: works but not optimal charging and some other issues

Port upgrade path: it was explained in this thread that it will not happen because of cost and complexity of this upgrade.

None of them actually would solve the access to the Tesla SuC as this is a Tesla decision and not yours.

As Kyle from "Out of spec reviews" has explained, Tesla could just do a few CCS Magic Docks upgrades and gives the best experience to the car who use natively NACS.

While Taycan values may indeed be dropping, I really don't think the plug has anything to do with it.

I mean let's be real:

Worst case: we have to use an adapter
Best case: we get a port upgrade path

 

[daveo4EV]

That is one way of following the trend??

Question is though, if the chargers were very unreliable in the first place, will a different connector help that?

some (not all) of the reliablity problems are the fact that CCS 1 is fragile and when the connector is broken the station is offline - the NACS design is less fragile so some portion of the reliability problem will be addressed - not all of it - just some of it…

CCS 1 port ergonomics and fragility was specifically called out by Ford CEO during a CNBC interview…there are moving parts, large plastic bits, and difficult ergonomics to the physical design and it's overall weight - NACS trounces CCS 1 from a design point of view in a number of dimensions…

1 example

the CCS 1 design has a latch/moving-part on it - when it's dropped this latach often "breaks" - if the latch breaks the connector can not lock to the vehicle and the charging session will refuse to start if the connector is not latched (safety which I agree with for 400V/800V DC) - NACS has NO moving parts on it - so no latch to break - the locking mechanism is inside the NACS port on the vehicle which if it breaks only affects that vehicle and not the entire station requiring a visit to the site to replace the VERY VERY expensive water cooled charging cable…because of a broken latch in an exposed location on a connector that is too heavy for most people to handle and gets dropped frequently.

design matters…

 

[EVmaniak]

Yes and the worst part is that the Signet guys I met at one time (yes coming from Korea) told me that they have the hardware / software stack to know exactly what is happening on their chargers.

Probably EA decided not to pay for that service and/or does not know or care using it...

agreed- the fact that EA rarely even "knows" their charging stalls are "broken" is more evidence they are simply clueless…I've been at a broken site countles times and called them and had their operator tell me it looks fine from our end...

they are just pathetic.

 

[daveo4EV]

Yes and the worst part is that the Signet guys I met at one time (yes coming from Korea) told me that they have the hardware / software stack to know exactly what is happening on their chargers.

Probably EA decided not to pay for that service and/or does not know or care using it...

root causes are difficult to get to but often explain lots of things…

EA's foundation is a legal agreement for "bad behiavor" by VW/Audi/Porsche - it was not founded from a position of "we want to be in this business" - it was founded as a Penalty for lying about emissions from their vehicle sales - they are not "driven" by the goal of Electrification - they are driven to match the consent degree requiring them to install stations - the decree also has a requirement for operational minimums which they are not meeting, but it's unclear which agency in US govt would pursue enforcement and so far none are stepping up to make EA honor it obligations…

fundamentally EA isn't an "honest" business and would not exist on merit if it were not for diesel-gate - there is your "core" problem - their entire business is a legal requirement, not a "passion" for what they are doing.

say many things about Tesla, but a lack of passion is not one of them.

 

[daveo4EV]

If there was any remaining doubt, the format war is now over:



Now I want Porsche to provide a port upgrade path for the DC side.

this is also HUGE - it should be no problem to include NACS plug on their cables…ball is rolling - and CCS 1 is going to die…

Supercharger Access however is still at Tesla's discretion even if you have a NACS port on your vehicle - good news however any NACS based CCS station will be offline less due to connector breakage problems, any other reliability problems will have to be addressed separately.

 

[satchurator]

I really recommend you to check the current value of your Taycan at your fav Porsche dealer and/or on any used car site and/or KBB.

I have done it on my side and YES their value is dropping like a stone at the moment.

You should also probably watch and see what Kyle is saying about all of this.

Again, apart from hiding behind any rhetoric, show me some concrete news or info about how well the CCS networks are going ...

The drop in resale values had been happening before Ford or GM had said anything about NACS. That was more attributable to recovery of the global supply chain, and the macroeconomic downturn reducing demand.
I'm not disputing the fact that the CCS networks are shit. See my earlier post about how it's a good thing that EA gets this massive kick in the nuts.
I just don't believe that this will crater CCS Taycan values and it's premature to be making major purchasing decisions based on your hyperbole.
I really hope that there is nothing left in my argument here for you to mischaracterize.

 

[snstevens]

You have honestly NOT answered the question and just tried to be "funny" ! There is no fatality here but just plain facts.

What I am going to do is definitely not this, what the heck I would buy such Tesla / GM / Ford cars ... ?!?

I will go back to a 911 and get its "charging" at any gas station and contemplate its steady resale value.

I will also follow Porsche EVs news very closely. Then, when I feel I am confident I can charge a Porsche EV without too much trouble in the US, then I would do a switch back to such a car.

Enjoy the depreciation on your Taycan ...

With all due respect, no one is making a joke out of this. Also, your post did not ask a question, it’s simply stated what you believe to be the facts.

I think the suggestion that each of us look at other EVs is a reasonable one. No car is a forever purchase. We can all make choices with our dollars and find an EV with rapid charging capability that we want to drive. While I love my Porsche Taycan, it’s not the only EV in the world. But for the record, I plan to keep it.

 

[daveo4EV]

The connector is irrelevant. The cable on the Tesla chargers cannot reach the Taycan charging port. The Tesla chargers and the Tesla vehicles are designed for the Tesla to back in and then plug in at the rear quarter panel. I tried to reach a charger and had to parallel park across three chargers. Still the cable would barely reach.

V4 cables are longer and some tesla sites have side stalls which work really really well - not all Tesla sites are super congested so this is less of any issue at those sties…but yeah it's an issue, but one that will be addressed when it's needed.

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