Road Noise

[Old man]

I haven't heard of any after market tech. I did, coincidentally, once own a Cadillac ELR with the noise canceling apparatus but I could not tell how well it worked as there was no way to toggle it on and off. My guess is that it works OK, but nothing really amazing. With the ELR, when I ran out of battery, an ICE electric generator came to life and I could always hear it whining in the background.

My Air Pods have noise cancellation. It seems like a clever audio engineer could come up with a way to use the speakers in the car to do noise cancellation. Or maybe not since it doesn’t seem to be available

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[Tsingtao]

My Air Pods have noise cancellation. It seems like a clever audio engineer could come up with a way to use the speakers in the car to do noise cancellation. Or maybe not since it doesn’t seem to be available

One would think that clever lads could accomplish this feat but they haven't yet. I looked into sound cancellation tech a few years ago for my factory, which contains some pretty noisy machines, and there were no good solutions to be found. So for the time being, my approach is to insulate the heck out of the Taycan. As an update, I received my non-professional grade $50 decibel meter from Amazon and believe that I confirmed one of my theories, i.e. that road/tire noise is indeed coming in through the front doors. The readings were consistently ~3 db higher when I put my meter in close proximity to the door panels. My meter is likely not all that precise, but it seems consistent with other published db readings for the Taycan (something around 68/69 db at 70 mph). If I can get into the low 60s at 70mph with 21 inch Mission E's, I will consider that to be a great technological triumph! According to the dude who wrote the attached link, it is possible to achieve 8-12 db reduction with professionally installed sound deadening materials. Also interesting is that a proper noise insulation install will provide the added benefit of thermal insulation which could come in handy for extending range on a cold winter day.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/expl...ional 3M DBA installation,only 1/10th as loud.

 

[Old man]

One would think that clever lads could accomplish this feat but they haven't yet. I looked into sound cancellation tech a few years ago for my factory, which contains some pretty noisy machines, and there were no good solutions to be found. So for the time being, my approach is to insulate the heck out of the Taycan. As an update, I received my non-professional grade $50 decibel meter from Amazon and believe that I confirmed one of my theories, i.e. that road/tire noise is indeed coming in through the front doors. The readings were consistently ~3 db higher when I put my meter in close proximity to the door panels. My meter is likely not all that precise, but it seems consistent with other published db readings for the Taycan (something around 68/69 db at 70 mph). If I can get into the low 60s at 70mph with 21 inch Mission E's, I will consider that to be a great technological triumph! According to the dude who wrote the attached link, it is possible to achieve 8-12 db reduction with professionally installed sound deadening materials. Also interesting is that a proper noise insulation install will provide the added benefit of thermal insulation which could come in handy for extending range on a cold winter day.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/exploring-world-car-sound-deadening-for-garden-and-automobiles-s2ibf#:~:text=A professional 3M DBA installation,only 1/10th as loud.

Please keep us updated on your project. I did read another theory that major “
noise leak” was through the floor as you also mentioned.

 

[Old man]

I have a few theories on road noise, and the elimination thereof. Beyond peradventure, tires make a huge difference. I have 20 inch P. Scorpions for winter rubber and they are supremely quiet. My summer rubbers are 21 inch goodyears and they are noticeably louder. Putting the tire issue aside, the following are some other less scientific theories which I will be testing in the near future. Theory number one: A lot of the tire noise (and exhaust noise from loud trucks) is transmitted through the metal door panels of the Taycan because there is virtually no insulation to be found inside the doors. I have noise insulated glass but don't think that I am getting much benefit because the doors allow so much sound to enter the cabin. Theory number two: the open aero slits in the front wheel wells (on manual charge port cars such as my mine) allow tire noises to flow freely from tires to the cabin through the poorly insulated doors, i.e. it doesn't matter how well Porsche insulated the wheel wells, the aero slits negate the effect of any wheel well insulation. Theory number three: Porsche skimped on sound deadening materials throughout the vehicle in order to keep curb weight to a minimum. I'll be taking my car into a shop for sound deadening once the weather clears and I put my noisy summer rubber back on the car. We will begin with a full sound insulation job on all four doors. If that does not silence the goodyears, we will remove carpets and put sound deadening materials around the front wheel wells, firewall, etc. As a last resort, we will do the same in the rear, but I really think that most of the noise comes from the front tires. I purchased a decibel meter to measure before and after effects of my little science project and will post results and pics of the sound deadening project once completed. Maybe I am wasting time and money trying to silence 21 inch wheel noise, but I can't bear to swap out my 21 inch Mission E's for anything else and I really enjoy a quiet ride.

Any update on your sound deadening insulation. Is it done? Did it help? Cost? Thanks!

 

[Tsingtao]

Any update on your sound deadening insulation. Is it done? Did it help? Cost? Thanks!

Update: First and foremost, it is extremely difficult to find qualified shops that actually know what they are doing/talking about when it comes to sound-proofing a car. It's probably not so bad on the coasts, but I'm in the midwest and it is a real challenge. The best I could find was a shop that my brother uses to do restoration work on his 356 but even they said they had never touched a Taycan and I would be paying them, a lot, to learn how to do the job. The shop I initially thought could handle the job (a high end audio installer) proved that they were just as full of BS as the rest. But after checking around with local auto-enthusiasts, I have located a guy from the service shop of a local Porsche dealer who will do freelance work. And so, I have been educating myself on the best practices and best materials for sound-proofing/sound deadening, will procure all the necessary materials, and have the Porsche service tech over to my house -- probably on multiple occasions to help complete this project. For what it is worth, the dude who owns ResoNix provides absolutely the best advice/expertise on the subject that I could find anywhere on the internet (too bad his shop is in NY state). He even has several videos posted on his ResoNix site detailing the process of muffling a 911. As for materials, I really like what ResoNix has to offer with the exception of their spun bond sound absorbing material. It is drastically overpriced and, from what I can tell, is exactly the same material as 3M Thinsulate at a fraction of the price. In summary, here is the bill of materials necessary:
(1) ResoNix Lite Constrained Layer Dampening (CLD) material for door shells and wheel arches.
ResoNix offers heavier varieties but I am going with the Lite to ensure that I don't add unnecessary weight that could cause door sagging issues in the future. Cost: $4/square foot.
(2) ResoNix Fiber Mat (or 3M Thinsulate equivalent) sound absorber and decoupler for inside doors and between wheel arch liners and body. Cost: $9/sq ft for ResoNix, $2/sq ft for 3M. I also plan to remove my door sill guards and stuff Thinsulate into the cavities.
(3) Maybe -- ResoNix Guardian Mass Loaded Vinyl sound blocker. ResoNix affixes this to the CLD in their Porsche 911 video, but admit that sound blockers such as MLV need to cover 100% of the surface area to be effective. So the jury is still out on this rather expensive component.
(4) ResoNix Butyl Rope and Decoupling tape to be strategically applied on inner door frames to eliminate the little door jiggles that I sometimes hear on choppy road surfaces.

Bottom line: I am confident that I can purchase all required materials for under $500 -- assuming I forgo the MLV and use 3M rather than a ResoNix branded sound absorber. I will attempt to do as much of the application work myself as possible and just have the Porsche freelancer do the tough stuff like taking the door panels off/on, removing wheel arch liners, etc. without damaging anything in the process. I've budgeted $1000-$1,500 for help from the Porsche freelancer. I also think that each door will take 3-4 hours of my time, and that the each of the wheel wells will take 2-3 hours.

The following is a link for Part 1 or 6 of the ResoNix videos on sound deadening/blocking/absorbing on a 911 GT3. . Worth watching if thinking about creating a more silent environment for you Porsche!

 

[ciaranob]

Update: First and foremost, it is extremely difficult to find qualified shops that actually know what they are doing/talking about when it comes to sound-proofing a car. It's probably not so bad on the coasts, but I'm in the midwest and it is a real challenge. The best I could find was a shop that my brother uses to do restoration work on his 356 but even they said they had never touched a Taycan and I would be paying them, a lot, to learn how to do the job. The shop I initially thought could handle the job (a high end audio installer) proved that they were just as full of BS as the rest. But after checking around with local auto-enthusiasts, I have located a guy from the service shop of a local Porsche dealer who will do freelance work. And so, I have been educating myself on the best practices and best materials for sound-proofing/sound deadening, will procure all the necessary materials, and have the Porsche service tech over to my house -- probably on multiple occasions to help complete this project. For what it is worth, the dude who owns ResoNix provides absolutely the best advice/expertise on the subject that I could find anywhere on the internet (too bad his shop is in NY state). He even has several videos posted on his ResoNix site detailing the process of muffling a 911. As for materials, I really like what ResoNix has to offer with the exception of their spun bond sound absorbing material. It is drastically overpriced and, from what I can tell, is exactly the same material as 3M Thinsulate at a fraction of the price. In summary, here is the bill of materials necessary:
(1) ResoNix Lite Constrained Layer Dampening (CLD) material for door shells and wheel arches.
ResoNix offers heavier varieties but I am going with the Lite to ensure that I don't add unnecessary weight that could cause door sagging issues in the future. Cost: $4/square foot.
(2) ResoNix Fiber Mat (or 3M Thinsulate equivalent) sound absorber and decoupler for inside doors and between wheel arch liners and body. Cost: $9/sq ft for ResoNix, $2/sq ft for 3M. I also plan to remove my door sill guards and stuff Thinsulate into the cavities.
(3) Maybe -- ResoNix Guardian Mass Loaded Vinyl sound blocker. ResoNix affixes this to the CLD in their Porsche 911 video, but admit that sound blockers such as MLV need to cover 100% of the surface area to be effective. So the jury is still out on this rather expensive component.
(4) ResoNix Butyl Rope and Decoupling tape to be strategically applied on inner door frames to eliminate the little door jiggles that I sometimes hear on choppy road surfaces.

Bottom line: I am confident that I can purchase all required materials for under $500 -- assuming I forgo the MLV and use 3M rather than a ResoNix branded sound absorber. I will attempt to do as much of the application work myself as possible and just have the Porsche freelancer do the tough stuff like taking the door panels off/on, removing wheel arch liners, etc. without damaging anything in the process. I've budgeted $1000-$1,500 for help from the Porsche freelancer. I also think that each door will take 3-4 hours of my time, and that the each of the wheel wells will take 2-3 hours.

The following is a link for Part 1 or 6 of the ResoNix videos on sound deadening/blocking/absorbing on a 911 GT3. . Worth watching if thinking about creating a more silent environment for you Porsche!

For what it’s worth removing the wheel arch liners (at least the front ones) is actually super easy and not nearly as daunting as it might first seem (and replacing one as I had to do a while back - I’ll repost the thread later) - so possibly one less thing to farm out !

 

[Singularity]

I've had a 2020 4S for almost four years now and road noise is probably the single most annoying issue about the car in my opinion. With both the 19" summer tires and 20" winter tires it's quite loud.

I really don't buy these "it's an EV so now you notice the road noise better" arguments. Sure, they do affect the issue, but it doesn't change the fact that the Taycan has pretty non-existent noise insulation in the doors / wheel wells.

Many cars are much more quiet than the Taycan regardless of what engine they have.

Regardless of this annoyance I still ordered the updated Taycan, this time with the noise insulated glass. Perhaps it helps a little. And perhaps the new tires will be less noisy.

If it's still very noisy, I might also consider doing some customization to add insulation to the doors & wheel wells.

 

[ciaranob]

I've had a 2020 4S for almost four years now and road noise is probably the single most annoying issue about the car in my opinion. With both the 19" summer tires and 20" winter tires it's quite loud.

I really don't buy these "it's an EV so now you notice the road noise better" arguments. Sure, they do affect the issue, but it doesn't change the fact that the Taycan has pretty non-existent noise insulation in the doors / wheel wells.

Many cars are much more quiet than the Taycan regardless of what engine they have.

Regardless of this annoyance I still ordered the updated Taycan, this time with the noise insulated glass. Perhaps it helps a little. And perhaps the new tires will be less noisy.

If it's still very noisy, I might also consider doing some customization to add insulation to the doors & wheel wells.

I suspect the wheel wells will be the biggest source of noise and curious as to where/how the insulating/dampening material is best placed in there - guess I need to look at the vids posted above !

 

[Pete85]

Luckily I had a few M-cars before the Taycan and in compared to those, the road noise is fine. I barely notice any noice, neither on the 20" summer or 20" winters.
If you come from an Merc S-class or BMW 700-series, I guess the Taycan is louder. But then again, I dont think you can get a sporty ride without at least a small amount of road noise.
If I would want a super silent car without any noise, I wouldn't have bought the Taycan.

 

[Tsingtao]

For what it’s worth removing the wheel arch liners (at least the front ones) is actually super easy and not nearly as daunting as it might first seem (and replacing one as I had to do a while back - I’ll repost the thread later) - so possibly one less thing to farm out !

Thanks, I could not find any videos showing the procedure. My biggest concern is with all the clips that hold the things on -- and not busting them all in the removal process. Like most projects, I suspect that wheel liner removal is much easier the second time around.

 

[ciaranob]

Thanks, I could not find any videos showing the procedure. My biggest concern is with all the clips that hold the things on -- and not busting them all in the removal process. Like most projects, I suspect that wheel liner removal is much easier the second time around.

All screws and washers thankfully for the liners so no funky clips to lose or deform - just a matter of locating them all as quite a few holding it on.

Here’s that link to the liner removal thread - didn’t actually detail locs. of bolts but again TBH really straight forward.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/replaced-road-damaged-plastic-on-underside-of-ct.12449/

 

[Tsingtao]

I suspect the wheel wells will be the biggest source of noise and curious as to where/how the insulating/dampening material is best placed in there - guess I need to look at the vids posted above !

Attached is a pretty good video of the Taycan completely ripped apart. It gives one a pretty good sense of where Porsche tried to put a little sound deadening in places like the wheel wells. At 7:00 in the video, for example, they show Porsche's attempt to place a little CLD in the rear wheel wells. It is interesting to compare what Porsche does to a Taycan's wheel wells to what ResoNix-man does to a Porsche 911's.

My Air Pods have noise cancellation. It seems like a clever audio engineer could come up with a way to use the speakers in the car to do noise cancellation. Or maybe not since it doesn’t seem to be available

All screws and washers thankfully for the liners so no funky clips to lose or deform - just a matter of locating them all as quite a few holding it on.

Here’s that link to the liner removal thread - didn’t actually detail locs. of bolts but again TBH really straight forward.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/replaced-road-damaged-plastic-on-underside-of-ct.12449/

Thanks. That is indeed good news about the screws and washers. Based on your representation that this is an easy task, I went ahead and ordered 50 sq feet of Thinsulate to attach to the back of the wheel arch liners! Nothing will stick to the liners which is OK as the screws should hold everything in place very well. While I have the arch liners off, I'll apply CLD to any exposed, easy to access areas of the wheel wells. And for sure I will post some pics of this undertaking and report findings to the group. I suspect that working on the liners and wheel wells will mitigate some of the tire noise, but hitting the door panels should make the biggest difference.

 

[Boss Hogg]

Regardless of this annoyance I still ordered the updated Taycan, this time with the noise insulated glass. Perhaps it helps a little. And perhaps the new tires will be less noisy.

I have noise insulated glass on my CT (20" wheels) but had a GTS loaner recently with standard glass (21" wheels). The extra noise in the cabin was noticeable for me, tyre noise slightly, but more just general outside noise, other cars passing etc. I think you'll like it on the Gen2.

Gen2 also has improved 'comfort' and 'product substance' by adding weight (14.5kg), I assume this will be sound deadening amongst other things.

 

[Tsingtao]

A quick update on Tsingtao's sound deadening project: I ordered Thinsulate and CLD (from separate suppliers) during the first week of May. The Thinsulate arrived and looks great (pics below). The CLD from ResoNix is still in process. FedEx tracking number indicates that a "label" has been created. Maybe this is an anomaly, but if you are ordering from ResoNix do not be in a big hurry. While waiting for delivery of the CLD, I took the opportunity to conduct a most unscientific, but satisfying, experiment with the Thinsulate sound absorber. I politely asked Alexa to play some music through her little noise ball thing. I placed my dB meter on the bed about three feet from Alexa's ball and had her turn up the volume until the dB readings bounced between 68 and 70 (just about where they range in the Taycan at 70mph.) I then covered Alexa's noise ball with the Thinsulate (nothing special, just laid it over top of the ball) and observed the dB readings. Conclusion: The Thinsulate dropped the noise level by a good four to five dBs. I would not take these results to the bank, but certainly a step in the right direction.

 

[gnop1950]

I have a 2022 Taycan 4S with pretty much all of the performance options, 21" tires, and the insulated glass.

While my car was in for service they gave me a 2023 RWD Taycan with 20" tires and no insulated glass. It did have the standard suspension as well.

Driving the same roads, about 140 miles total highway and some back roads, my 4S with the insulated glass was much quieter than the RWD without the glass.

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