Porsche considering retrofit of some 2025 Taycan improvements to pre-facelift model (battery management system, cluster charging screen)

[Jasper4S]

Pcarwisperer told in one of the videos about j1.1 and j1.2 that Porsche will upgrade old gen with some features. He is always pretty good informed so I have high hopes. uPdate also came after summer right, some maybe we need some patience? Maybe they’ll combine the battery monitoring software with a upgrade. So when we get the invitation for the battery monitoring software installation they can bring it as good news?

@chun it is just a car, chillex. Everything will be fine.

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[Brombaer1971]

@Jasper4S I hope you‘re right.

 

[whitex]

And they then pay additional money on service time to disable that capacity via software Ignoring the money invested into developing said software.

So... why spend that extra money? To make customers more disappointment in the brand?

It's to save money, and avoid complaints from entitled customers. It they give you a 110kWh battery as a replacement for the 97kWh battery, they now have a 13kWh buffer for warranty coverage. This buffer saves them money in two ways:

1. They only warranty degradation below 70% of 97kWh, not 110kWh. So in this case, the battery can degrade more and still meet the commitment to the customer.
2. Customer is never allowed to charge to 100%, which makes the battery last longer, which saves money on the warranty.

As for entitled customer complains, well, nowadays people really like to complain about what other get and how it's unfair. I remember on multiple occasions when Tesla lowered prices of their cars, people were outraged, in once case when the M3 Performance price was lowered by $5K (though free DC charging was removed with it), there were people demonstrating on the streets in EU and I think in the US too. Worth noting that no such demonstrations ever happened when Tesla raised their prices by $5K, no indignant customers demanding Tesla take extra $5K from them.

In this case Porsche is providing customers exactly what they paid for, an equivalent 97kWh capacity battery, with some indirect bonuses, like increased longevity and faster charging (since the battery never charges near 100%, the charging speeds don't drop like they would if it was a real 100%). People here complaining about how they are entitled to the extra capacity for free are also a good example of entitled customers complaining they didn't get something for which they didn't pay for.

I can see you never ever worked in a customer facing job. You have no idea what makes a customer happy.

Of course free stuff makes a lot of customers happy, doesn't mean they are going to get it. If Porsche gave away a brand new 911 GT3 RS to every J1.1 Taycan customer as a thankyou for being an early adopter, I bet there would be a lot of ecstatic customers, but it doesn't mean it makes business sense to do it. In this case, customers get everything they paid for, with some minor bonuses I mentioned above. Honestly, as a business, it may be worth losing those customers who always want free stuff and generate negative commentary all over the internet. Reminded me of a journalist who used to badmouth Apple, thinking how he was entitled to free stuff. Steve Jobs personally saw to it that the guy was banned from ever purchasing another Apple device again, which made sense, obviously Apple devices were causing this guy some major pains.

 

[chun]

It's to save money, and avoid complaints from entitled customers. It they give you a 110kWh battery as a replacement for the 97kWh battery, they now have a 13kWh buffer for warranty coverage. This buffer saves them money in two ways:

1. They only warranty degradation below 70% of 97kWh, not 110kWh. So in this case, the battery can degrade more and still meet the commitment to the customer.
2. Customer is never allowed to charge to 100%, which makes the battery last longer, which saves money on the warranty.

As for entitled customer complains, well, nowadays people really like to complain about what other get and how it's unfair. I remember on multiple occasions when Tesla lowered prices of their cars, people were outraged, in once case when the M3 Performance price was lowered by $5K (though free DC charging was removed with it), there were people demonstrating on the streets in EU and I think in the US too. Worth noting that no such demonstrations ever happened when Tesla raised their prices by $5K, no indignant customers demanding Tesla take extra $5K from them.

In this case Porsche is providing customers exactly what they paid for, an equivalent 97kWh capacity battery, with some indirect bonuses, like increased longevity and faster charging (since the battery never charges near 100%, the charging speeds don't drop like they would if it was a real 100%). People here complaining about how they are entitled to the extra capacity for free are also a good example of entitled customers complaining they didn't get something for which they didn't pay for.


Of course free stuff makes a lot of customers happy, doesn't mean they are going to get it. If Porsche gave away a brand new 911 GT3 RS to every J1.1 Taycan customer as a thankyou for being an early adopter, I bet there would be a lot of ecstatic customers, but it doesn't mean it makes business sense to do it. In this case, customers get everything they paid for, with some minor bonuses I mentioned above. Honestly, as a business, it may be worth losing those customers who always want free stuff and generate negative commentary all over the internet. Reminded me of a journalist who used to badmouth Apple, thinking how he was entitled to free stuff. Steve Jobs personally saw to it that the guy was banned from ever purchasing another Apple device again, which made sense, obviously Apple devices were causing this guy some major pains.

It's less entitled customers, and more about perception, a very real thing. And any customer facing business should very much be worried about how their customer perceives their business, in this case EVs.

As someone working in a highly regulated industry, where shenanigans happen all the time, the customer always receives the absolute best and perfect product, in their perception at least, because at the end of the day customer is always right.

So let's agree to disagree on what's entitlement and what's short sighted business practice.

You are making absurd comparisons. At the end of the day they put a bigger battery in the car, and then lock it away. So here's your comparison, but corrected to match: Porsche gives everyone a free gt3rs, but forbids everyone to take it out from their garage, to "save money" after having spent 350k per customer

You are also mistaking "some entitled customers" being unhappy, with the perception of people, existing customer or future customers, on the product of Porsche, and that is their EVs, mind you, the future of Porsche. No business can afford to lose their future customers, as you imply or think. This is not one click baity reporter as in your example.

Google Porsche taycan, and there's your perception of the product. Can Porsche really afford to make it worse? Better, go on reddit, more unfiltered. Or hey, maybe this forum, where only the most dedicated people are - are most threads about how amazing the car is?

I am sorry, but you clearly have never had to deal with customers in a direct way, and that's ok.

 

[Deleted member 14304]

I personally don’t get why this crying in getting free stuff..
When you buy a product, with positive and negative sides included, that’s it.
Free to switch to another if not happy! Just buy an extended warranty and enjoy the car as it is.
I understand people would prefer to keep a Porsche with problems instead buying another EV chiese or not..but again, that is what you/we bought.
I’m on the Porsche’s side on that.

 

[chun]

Lucid doing it right:

Offering new car computer for 950, with installation included. That's what EV drivers expect and want to see.

Meanwhile, no word from Porsche since the initial hints 9 months ago, which would be just software in the case of porsche, since j1.1 and j1.2 have same hardware in terms of computing.

They will keep wondering for a few years why their sales keep going down... a perplexing mystery for Porsche, indeed.

I thought porsche was known for the support of their cars post sale? I guess EVs are not cars.

 

[smoothound]

FWIW... Like many others now, I had the long-awaited HV battery monitoring software update today OTA - no J1.2 freebies or other stuff included - can't really tell anything has changed at all.

So, if you are right that they intend to offer some 1.2esque upgrades, it may be tied to a physical visit to OPC (for the update or other reasons like servicing), rather than being solely linked to the HV battery monitoring software update itself per se.... just my 2 cents worth.. Cheers

 

[tophamn]

FWIW... Like many others now, I had the long-awaited HV battery monitoring software update today OTA - no J1.2 freebies or other stuff included - can't really tell anything has changed at all.

So, if you are right that they intend to offer some 1.2esque upgrades, it may be tied to a physical visit to OPC (for the update or other reasons like servicing), rather than being solely linked to the HV battery monitoring software update itself per se.... just my 2 cents worth.. Cheers

Any PCM updates would be delivered separately from the battery monitoring software, even if it would come OTA.

 

[smoothound]

Any PCM updates would be delivered separately from the battery monitoring software, even if it would come OTA.

Absolutely Mr. T, .... It was just that in early posts in this thread, some were hoping that when they receive the new monitoring software, that P would take the opportunity to add 1.2 upgrades ... I was suggesting it would be a separate thing, possibly requiring a physical OPC visit. Cheers.

 

[Brombaer1971]

Porsche like most I call them old style OEMs has not managed to adopt platform thinking in developing/maintaining the software. For them its developing everything til SOP (Start of Production) after that its merely fixing bugs. Everything after first customer car is merely fixing bugs. Everything else for them is just treated as additional expense and someone has to sign this off to be done.

As a software guy I am beyond sad because this is so 20th century thinking and the taycan is really a phantastic car. Everytime I am at a DC charger and have subpar charging experience I ask myself why does the display not show me what the car would actually allow to be charged.

It is soooo sad.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Everytime I am at a DC charger and have subpar charging experience I ask myself why does the display not show me what the car would actually allow to be charged.

I am so grateful my Taycan lacks that feature, which would just be adding insult to the injury that is DCFC in Northern New England.
(Although fortunately now two 6x200kW Rivian stations have opened to the public just as the NEVI station has become unusable, whew!)

 

[Brombaer1971]

You can even get subpar experience at a 150KW Station

 

[JackSparrow]

Lucid doing it right:

Offering new car computer for 950, with installation included. That's what EV drivers expect and want to see.

Meanwhile, no word from Porsche since the initial hints 9 months ago, which would be just software in the case of porsche, since j1.1 and j1.2 have same hardware in terms of computing.

They will keep wondering for a few years why their sales keep going down... a perplexing mystery for Porsche, indeed.

I thought porsche was known for the support of their cars post sale? I guess EVs are not cars.

I had a look at a Lucid forum about this update, the response was overwhelmingly positive, but there was some complaining about having to pay for the upgrade after spending $150k for the car.
I think the experience with Apple products with multiple years of “free” continuous software upgrades of already sold, hardware compatible products has set an expectation of a customer focused multi-year support of fixes, new features and other upgrades flowing to the existing customer base.
The Lucid model, where software updates are offered that also require hardware changes (which can be retrofitted at a relatively modest cost), I find attractive and would likely pay for.
I’d also like an update to enable the matrix headlights that were disabled for import to the US due to regulations that no longer apply.
I think supporting existing owners help resale value as well as show new and repeat buyers that they will be supported well into the future.
Porsche already does this with the release of somewhat modern plug compatible infotainment for older 911 vehicles.

 

[Brombaer1971]

What you write sounds reasonable, however we are talking about minor things, not something that makes the car do things it did not do before nor doing them faster. One could easily argue its more optimization of things that have not been fully finished before (maybe the data from all customers driving their cars for up to 5 years wasn‘t there).

Getting a bigger battery while exchanging the old problematic one ? Yes, a charge for the additional capacity. Or do it free aknowledging the teething problems with the car that meant customers lost time or had inconvenience.

And don‘t get me wrong, I really love driving the car (Short & Long distance). Best daily I ever had.

 

[whitex]

I had a look at a Lucid forum about this update, the response was overwhelmingly positive, but there was some complaining about having to pay for the upgrade after spending $150k for the car.
I think the experience with Apple products with multiple years of “free” continuous software upgrades of already sold, hardware compatible products has set an expectation of a customer focused multi-year support of fixes, new features and other upgrades flowing to the existing customer base.

Apple doesn’t provide free hardware update at all. If a new iOS feature requires new hardware, users of older devices don’t get it. So in this case Lucid is offering more than Apple. There will always be people who will complain, no matter what the company does. Whether it’s new hardware, or software, or prices, there is no shortage of people who feel entitled to free stuff.

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