Bye guys. Thanks for the good times.

[McgR]

I have had a very good time on this forum. Thanks everybody for the very nice reports, tips and advice. You have given the ownership of the Taycan an extra dimension.

After my last charging adventure and other classic issues with the charger and heater I decided to give it back at the leasing. It was just out of warranty and I had an all inclusive operational lease. They offered to take it back for 1.600 euro. Didn’t think twice.

Thought about a new 4 CT with the improved reliability with the new charger and heater and better range. But just didn’t dare to because it is a new model again.

Found a really nice Panamera ST PHEV in Germany, 4 months old, 14.000 km for 70% of the new price in Belgium at an official dealership with all the options I want and more made the deal and had it within a week.

A new similar specked 4 CT was almost 20.000 k more the the one I had. And a new Pana PHEV is not available as ST and was above what I wanted to spend on it.

One of the things also was that all our longer trips were centered around charging the Taycan. Hotels with chargers, rental house near a fast charger, … Maybe I made to much of it my self. The children told me after the switch to the Panamera my wife will be so happy we don’t need to change on the road anymore. She never mentioned a thing to me because she knows how much I liked driving it. Gave quite some stress on family trips.

To compare both cars.

Boths have PID, RWS, noise and thermal glass, Bose, 4 zone AC, heated and cooled seats. Dolomite with black leather.

the Taycan has massage seats. Miss the function a bit.

the Panamera has the 18w seats. Had some getting used to but like them better now.

it also has carbon inserts and deviated crayon stitching. Overzal the interior looks and feels higher class. Also has the Porsche design clock. Wouldn’t have payed for it when ordered new but looks nice. And it has an opening sunroof with blinds.

it has a V6 instead of a frunk. And a sport exhaust. Really nice sound. I drive most of my trips electric around town and most longer highway trips on fuel. My average economy is not bad at all. Range on fuel around 900 km. Filled the tank today for 140 euro in NL that was a surprise for my wallet. Should have done it in B.

Cargo space looks similar but no frunk and no place for the cables and charger in the rear. I think it is bigger above the parcel shelf. I think the Panamera will be a bit smaller without the frunk and under floor storage.

driving the Pana on the highway is a bit more comfortable and relaxing. Both have 20 inch wheels. The sound of the v6 in the background doesn’t bother me at all. It kind of masked other road noises and the whining noise the wheels made on bad roads.

Cornering is better in the Taycan. It has a more sporty feel. I didn’t drive the Pana in sport mode however but it feels heavier. The Taycan is always ready for sporty driving. The Pana heats the engine pretty quickly but still doesn’t feel right the slam on the gas with a cold engine for a short trip.

Both have PCM 6 and they look and function the same. HUD looks like a Commodore 64 in the Pana. Still can live with it. PID works better in the Taycan. Steering with PID active in the Pana makes steering less comfortable. A feeling I didn’t have in the Taycan and it has the possibility to switch of ALK with PID active. In the Pana it is all or nothing. I usually drive in ACC mode.

Central screen in the Pana is bigger which is nice.

If we had another car for roadtrips I probably would have kept the Taycan I would have lived with its problems. I really liked driving it.

Anyway thanks everybodyfor the very nice two years and probably see you again in a couple of years when I switch back to a Taycan / Macan EV.

 

[Scandinavian]

Sorry to see you go, but fully agree with your decision.
But also a congratulation!
Impressed by the overall consumption of the Panamera. Might go and see if I can do a similar deal? I am totally fed up with all the issues with the Taycan now. The amount of visits to the dealer is not acceptable. I have 90 minutes drive to the dealer and seldom get a loaner. Depending on getting a lift or an Uber.

Car is up for sale but the market is very depressed and no interest. There are so many new Taycans MY25 in stock at dealers and even more for used cars.

I just completed a 10,000 km round trip with a M5 F10.
What a pleasure!
Much shorter day trips.
Easier to refuel
No waiting times
No planning
All stations will accept credit cards
Better comfort

I just cannot wait to see the new release of the M5 rumoured to be a Hybrid. Then the Malus tax will disappear here in France.

 

[McgR]

Completely agree about the road trip experience. I also thought about a 550e hybrid touring but they are only making a sedan and that is not practical for our family. The M5 will probably have the same engine as the XM.

On my search for the Panamera I visited three dealerships in Belgium. They offered aroun 53 k for my 2 year old Taycan which was 135 k new.

still the Taycan was a very nice car to drive. Don’t want to make this a negative Taycan thread. But the it let me down one time to much.

 

[Fun TC Driving]

Great reasoning McgR. We know you will enjoy your Panamera.

 

[tigerbalm]

I went in the opposite direction from Panamera Turbo S Hybrid to Taycan – and I've never been fully sure if I gave up on the Panamera too quickly. I only owned it for a year (my first Porsche) and that was in 2020 during the pandemic lockdowns.

I myself was toying with the idea recently of moving back to Panamera – but I think I'm just going to stick with my current Taycan for a while more – especially as it is currently working perfectly!

One of the things also was that all our longer trips were centered around charging the Taycan. Hotels with chargers, rental house near a fast charger, … Maybe I made to much of it my self. The children told me after the switch to the Panamera my wife will be so happy we don’t need to change on the road anymore. She never mentioned a thing to me because she knows how much I liked driving it. Gave quite some stress on family trips.

As a long-range road tripper in our Taycan, this paragraph resonated! I'm lucky in that my wife is as into EVs (and has her own city focused Fiat 500 EV) as I am. And participates in the charge planning and hotel picking, etc. I think if this wasn't the case – Taycan ownership as a family thing would be very difficult. You just can't go long distance in an EV yet without some planning.

However, I do feel this is changing and improving dramatically every year here in Europe. Ireland and UK still has some way to go: but my goodness: are you ever more than 10 km from a FastNed station in the Netherlands?

3.8L/100km is very impressive. Once the hybrid battery was depleted in my MY2020 Panamera – the V8 drank petrol .

It is very frustrating that Taycan unreliability dented your confidence (understandably) in the end – considering the small number of moving parts in an EV compared to the 1000's of oil lubricated parts in a Panamera. But version 1 did really bite many of us.

Sounds like you've ended up with the best Porsche for you and your family's needs. And that ain't bad. It's easy to forget – especially at the prices of these cars here in the EU – that it is a privilege to be able to drive and experience them.

 

[TXSchnee]

M5 will have the same PHEV set up as the XM. I have an XM and it is a pretty good hybrid system, get around 40 miles pure electric in the 6,000lb monster. XM has huge discounts right now (in the US), the exterior is too polarizing, that said, the interior is amazing and the reason I traded my Cayenne E Hybrid on it. Good luck with the Panamera, they are extremely nice.

 

[andb]

Congrats on the Panamera, really solid car. I still have mine and its faultless in 3 years of ownership!

If dealer doesn't fix my Taycan when I get home from a road trip of 4000km I'm selling it too.
Key fob doesn't work every time, PCM not loading for a day, door opening while driving on highway.
Probably I'll get a BMW iX or Mercedes EQS.

 

[Hirschaj]

Best of luck to you. I hope you love the Panamera.

 

[RAHRCR]

I had a Pan ST and really enjoyed it. Can’t bring myself to get another one until it’s full EV. The “Porsche tax” on service is unjustifiable IMHO and my taste in ICE drivetrains has evolved. The Pan is a great vehicle though. I hope Porsche is more successful with them in future.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

I can definitely relate to your situation. My Turbo S has been the best car I've ever driven - when it works. 150 days in the shop in 3-1/2 years. This is by an order of magnitude the most unreliable car I've ever owned. The other main issue is your well stated anxiety and just general hassle of taking the car on a long trip.

My wife just recently got a Mercedes 450e and the car is amazing. After 6 months of ownership, she's only filled the car up twice. And if we ever want to take a road trip, it has 550+ miles of range. I was thinking about the Panamera plug-in hybrid as my next car. I'm really quite disillusioned with the whole 'electric only' experience. Going on a long trip is just not a good thing with an EV - full stop. It is so much more relaxing to know that you don't have to worry about any charging issues when traveling a ways from home.

The big advantages of an EV are response and power, and it's the best 'driving around town' car that you can have. Just plug it in every night and you're set to go the next day with a full tank. The hybrid plug-ins are now getting 60+ miles on a charge, and the around town driving is pretty much exactly the same - just not quite the power surge that a full EV gives you.

I think this is a really critical juncture in EV adoption in this country. I don't see our charging infrastructure mimicking Europe, just like we don't have anywhere near the train or public transport system they do. If we can't get the charging infrastructure to the point where it's not a stress inducer, I question whether full EV's will really take hold. At this point, a plug-in hybrid checks a lot more boxes.

 

[McgR]

Congrats on the Panamera, really solid car. I still have mine and its faultless in 3 years of ownership!

If dealer doesn't fix my Taycan when I get home from a road trip of 4000km I'm selling it too.
Key fob doesn't work every time, PCM not loading for a day, door opening while driving on highway.
Probably I'll get a BMW iX or Mercedes EQS.

If you are used to a Taycan / Panamera I don’t think you will like the iX. It is very floaty and the seats are not supporting at all.

considered other EV but at the end the new Taycan would have been perfect. Good drive, fast charge, better range.

EQS and model S are the only ones with enough range to reduce charge stops on my holidays from 3 to 2 and make it possible to visit my family in the Netherlands without charging. They live at 210 km and 420 km real highway range is too far for most EV especially in colder times. Charging 10 minutes is not a problem as such but it was always on the way back and you just want to get home and not leaving the highway for 15 minutes.

EQS is a very nice drive but it is 15 cm longer than the Panamera and its just to much in Belgium. And they also have their problems. And it is very expensive. The 450 is much slower as a 4 CT and costs the same.

In Belgium most luxury EV are Taycans. I hardly see any EQS. Audi Etron SUV is also quite common.

Some EQE and lots of Model Y and 3, Polestart. But that is anorher class.

 

[andb]

If you are used to a Taycan / Panamera I don’t think you will like the iX. It is very floaty and the seats are not supporting at all.

considered other EV but at the end the new Taycan would have been perfect. Good drive, fast charge, better range.

EQS and model S are the only ones with enough range to reduce charge stops on my holidays from 3 to 2 and make it possible to visit my family in the Netherlands without charging. They live at 210 km and 420 km real highway range is too far for most EV especially in colder times. Charging 10 minutes is not a problem as such but it was always on the way back and you just want to get home and not leaving the highway for 15 minutes.

EQS is a very nice drive but it is 15 cm longer than the Panamera and its just to much in Belgium. And they also have their problems. And it is very expensive. The 450 is much slower as a 4 CT and costs the same.

In Belgium most luxury EV are Taycans. I hardly see any EQS. Audi Etron SUV is also quite common.

Some EQE and lots of Model Y and 3, Polestart. But that is anorher class.

Thanks for your input, indeed the iX seats are not supportive however one specced with dynamic anti roll handles very well for an SUV.

EQS I drove only on highway and I'm afraid it will have same issue as Taycan scrapping when driving faster over speed bumps. Its very annoying to have to drive so carefully the Taycan.

My other options are Audi S8 or Range Rover Sport D300.

 

[Gru]

I can definitely relate to your situation. My Turbo S has been the best car I've ever driven - when it works. 150 days in the shop in 3-1/2 years. This is by an order of magnitude the most unreliable car I've ever owned. The other main issue is your well stated anxiety and just general hassle of taking the car on a long trip.

On your 1st point, yes, Porsche could have better handled the (numerous) issues with this model. One by reducing the time spent fixing them, and two by doing recalls before a heater or an OBC breaks down. Trying to save a few (or a lot...) dollars isn't the best way to approach customers that spent +100k.

Regarding trips, we have a very different situation in (part of) Europe compared to USA. It needs a bit of planning, yes. For instance I wouldn't leave on these busy weekends in Summer/Winter... but I wouldn't either with an ICE car: you can spend hours in the traffic jam, not what I like.
Charging time ? not really an issue. Comparing 750km similar trips with an ICE / EV, I find a difference of around 20 to 30mn. Not significant on such trips IMHO. Some road work or car accident can very well make loose more than that.

The only annoying issue I have (daily) with this car is ... it's size. too large for small downtown streets, entries/exit of underground parkings (my nightmare...).

 

[McgR]

On your 1st point, yes, Porsche could have better handled the (numerous) issues with this model. One by reducing the time spent fixing them, and two by doing recalls before a heater or an OBC breaks down. Trying to save a few (or a lot...) dollars isn't the best way to approach customers that spent +100k.

Regarding trips, we have a very different situation in (part of) Europe compared to USA. It needs a bit of planning, yes. For instance I wouldn't leave on these busy weekends in Summer/Winter... but I wouldn't either with an ICE car: you can spend hours in the traffic jam, not what I like.
Charging time ? not really an issue. Comparing 750km similar trips with an ICE / EV, I find a difference of around 20 to 30mn. Not significant on such trips IMHO. Some road work or car accident can very well make loose more than that.

The only annoying issue I have (daily) with this car is ... it's size. too large for small downtown streets, entries/exit of underground parkings (my nightmare...).

I agree that it is doable. But it takes time. We have done the same 1000 km trip with the Taycan and with the CLE PHEV multiple and it is approximately 1.5 hours longer with the Taycan. In summer I don’t really care when the weather is good and for the trip going there. Have a coffee in the sun is fine for 20 minutes. For the return and in Winter you just want to get home.

I agree, it is al doable. But it takes planning. And once tou decided what chargers you are going to use you are kind of stuck with the route and can’t change for traffic jams or tou have to look for different chargers.

Charing infrastructure is getting better and better. Every holiday to the south the last years new high speed chargers are installed. And now they should work with a credit card. So it really is getting better and better. But if you have been stuck with a charging error out of the blue it doesn’t matter.

 

[groatzky]

I think this is a really critical juncture in EV adoption in this country. I don't see our charging infrastructure mimicking Europe, just like we don't have anywhere near the train or public transport system they do. If we can't get the charging infrastructure to the point where it's not a stress inducer, I question whether full EV's will really take hold. At this point, a plug-in hybrid checks a lot more boxes.

I think where we'll end up is that most two-car households will end up with one EV and one PHEV. We take a lot of road trips, so we have Volvo XC90 Recharge that my is my wife's daily driver. She'll easily go over a month without getting gas when we're in town. When I get my MY25 Taycan, I'd only consider taking it on trips within 300 miles.

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