September OTA Update Coming

[Alemany]

I'm always amused at the Porsche is holy and does no wrong attitude anytime someone complains about anything. In this case... sharing what's on an OTA is impossible, or impractical, you dont understand how difficult it is, it takes lots of work cus every car is different, not one says all that is updated, OTAs are complex and difficult interventions, etc etc etc. Yet, Tesla has been doing it for years and years. Release notes come with every update, and updates are as simple as wait a few minutes, no need to do anything. And Tesla is a crappy car! This is Porsche! it should be ten times easier and better than Tesla for heaves sakes.....

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[Afliss]

Just my opinion: I am not going to do any ota updates. I have enough headaches with iphone updates. My car is working fine, and I will keep it like that. if it is urgent enough, Porsche will issue a recall.

My business is electronics manufacturing and we tell our customers never to update firmware if the system is working properly. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it! " My CT is working just fine, so is there any reason to apply updates?

 

[caytan]

I'm always amused at the Porsche is holy and does no wrong attitude anytime someone complains about anything. In this case... sharing what's on an OTA is impossible, or impractical, you dont understand how difficult it is, it takes lots of work cus every car is different, not one says all that is updated, OTAs are complex and difficult interventions, etc etc etc. Yet, Tesla has been doing it for years and years. Release notes come with every update, and updates are as simple as wait a few minutes, no need to do anything. And Tesla is a crappy car! This is Porsche! it should be ten times easier and better than Tesla for heaves sakes.....

Porsche just has no clue about software or updates. Totally pathetic showing. That's one of the reason I sold my 4S. Well, that and I was lucky to sell it for more than I paid for it on the peak of Covid used car craziness.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I'm always amused at the Porsche is holy and does no wrong attitude anytime someone complains about anything. In this case... sharing what's on an OTA is impossible, or impractical, you dont understand how difficult it is, it takes lots of work cus every car is different, not one says all that is updated, OTAs are complex and difficult interventions, etc etc etc. Yet, Tesla has been doing it for years and years. Release notes come with every update, and updates are as simple as wait a few minutes, no need to do anything. And Tesla is a crappy car! This is Porsche! it should be ten times easier and better than Tesla for heaves sakes.....

All generalizations are wrong.
If you read the threads carefully, I don't think anyone is defending Porsche in all aspects; also, it's not "defending" if the "accusation" is incorrect/the accuser is uninformed as to how things work in real life.

On the particular topic of software updates:
- yes, Tesla is vastly better. They've also been doing it for going-on 10 years. They're also not known for their risk aversion.
- yes, Porsche can and should do better. They've been doing it for going-on 10 weeks (slight exaggeration). They're also known for being conservative, or "timid" if you prefer.

Porsche just has no clue about software or updates. Totally pathetic showing. That's one of the reason I sold my 4S. Well, that and I was lucky to sell it for more than I paid for it on the peak of Covid used car craziness.

I, for one, am glad you're still hanging around here to tell us about it.

 

[violuma]

It’s easier to test those protocols - and assert their safety - in a “locked car” scenario than it is in a regular city/highway driving.

I figure a concrete example of this (in a much lower-stakes environment) is the fact that game console OTAs always carry the weird-at-first-glance exhortation not to eject removable media or attach/detach external hard disks.

If you're going to mess around on /dev/sdb3, you don't want it to suddenly become /dev/sda3 partway through because somebody kicked out the DVD that was mounted at /dev/sda.

 

[bluedonkey]

That's a bit of a low blow. I have a GTS and a P100D Model S. Both cars have their pros/cons.

? => Joke!

 

[uthatcher]

But I really enjoy how they stress that it's a FREE update a few times in the notifications. Somehow the stressing of FREE makes me feel like it's going to fail. ? And is it even an update if we had to pay? Wouldn't that be an upgrade?

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I'm always amused at the Porsche is holy and does no wrong attitude anytime someone complains about anything. In this case... sharing what's on an OTA is impossible, or impractical, you dont understand how difficult it is, it takes lots of work cus every car is different, not one says all that is updated, OTAs are complex and difficult interventions, etc etc etc. Yet, Tesla has been doing it for years and years. Release notes come with every update, and updates are as simple as wait a few minutes, no need to do anything. And Tesla is a crappy car! This is Porsche! it should be ten times easier and better than Tesla for heaves sakes.....

And here's another take on this: when you ship dogfood, you best get really good at fixing it OTA. ;-)

 

[CaliPorsche]

I feel ya man…. These Porsche fan boys are driving me insane with their incessant views sharing ……. You would think some of these fan boy fanatics have actually had a career working with some of this stuff…… sheeeesh……. Why would the interweb even allow these free thinking fools to be out there in public ….. beats me….. a stinkin cesspool of diversity that’s what it is………??

Porsche are as crap at Software updates as Tesla is at building a Drivers car ………there ……… feel better …. Take that fan boys …….

[/QUOTE]

I'm always amused at the Porsche is holy and does no wrong attitude anytime someone complains about anything. In this case... sharing what's on an OTA is impossible, or impractical, you dont understand how difficult it is, it takes lots of work cus every car is different, not one says all that is updated, OTAs are complex and difficult interventions, etc etc etc. Yet, Tesla has been doing it for years and years. Release notes come with every update, and updates are as simple as wait a few minutes, no need to do anything. And Tesla is a crappy car! This is Porsche! it should be ten times easier and better than Tesla for heaves sakes.....

 

[Marmolata]

Counterpoint: (I'm a software developer) - you are inviting more trouble for yourself by avoiding updates.

Bug fixes are sometimes VERY important, and not getting them can severely hamper your experience. There may even be safety concerns because this is, after all, a car.

Don't be afraid.

I cannot recall saying I was afraid. Maybe as a software developer, you are afraid.

Afraid that you may actually have to write good lean code - Not bloated sloppy code that you "fix" with an update after update after update.

 

[Reg]

Terrible that we can't talk about Taycan and Porsche without the inevitable ...but...but...but...let me talk about Tesla...but...but...Tesla....have I told you about Tesla?...

 

[snstevens]

Maybe this is a bit too philosophical, but here goes.

It sounds to me like the tension is rising in this thread, so perhaps we should consider that, at least in regard to OTAs, we are all in pretty good agreement on the following points.

• A software-based automotive control system (e.g., the PCM) offers the the opportunity to extend functionality without hardware updates.
• All software has bugs, and will always have bugs.
• Software updates address both expanded functionality AND bug fixes.
• OTA updates are of two flavors -
  • Data updates (e.g., map data) -- Data updates have been happening since we bought our cars.
  • Code updates (e.g., the recent changes to charging behavior) -- The first of these for the Taycan occurred in July 2023.
• Tesla has years of experience with OTA updates so "of course!" we will compare the Tesla OTA process with the Porsche OTA process.
  • Currently, Tesla OTAs are mostly uneventful (good for them).
  • To-date Porsche has only had one "major" OTA update, and although some reported left-side charge cover issues, it was mostly uneventful - no bricks reported (whew!).
• There are a lot of software developers in this Forum, and they offer valuable perspectives on the OTA process. [Ok, this last one is definitely my own personal opinion ?]

What I don't think we are in agreement on is what the hell the term "fan boy" means, since it is inherently derogative, right?

Personally, I find the use of the term to be somewhat ironic. Why? Well, isn't this is a forum geared to Porsche Taycan enthusiasts who love the way their Taycan drives; are passionate about figuring things (e.g., how to silence the trunk beeper, reset the PCM, or open the frunk when the battery is dead); who don't mind pointing out when Porsche is failing to live up to their brand expectations; and who are generally hopeful for the future of Porsche EVs. Aren't we all "fan boys" at some level? [you too @annieland ?]

It is my belief that 1) this forum is a fabulous place for me to learn about and appreciate my Taycan; 2) Porsche is making some progress in OTAs; and 3) the term "fan boy" is at best a distraction. In fact, I suggest we drop the term altogether, and as an alternative use data and logic to point out our reasoning when we disagree with a post. I personally will find that very valuable.

These are just my opinions of course, and while I'm just as prone as anyone to losing my shit, I'll do my best to keep it civil.

 

[whitex]

Map updates are “data”; OTA updates are “code”.

OTA means Over-The-Air. Code or maps, either can be updated via OTA or not. A remember a few of my previous cars required a new CD or DVD to be bought and inserted in the car to get new maps.

 

[JAGMAN]

The PCM in my car has become far more stable in the past few months. It used to crash once per week. It’s been two months since the last crash. There have been zero PCM updates, so the improved stability isn’t from a PCM update.

But, there was a calendar update about two months ago, and ever since, better stability.

This makes me wonder if the calendar was making the system unstable. This most recent OTA (this week) was also a calendar update. The question is, why so much attention on the calendar? It seems a fairly seldom used and insignificant part of the PCM.

 

[f1eng]

Tesla has been doing it for years and years. Release notes come with every update, and updates are as simple as wait a few minutes, no need to do anything.

I think it is easier for Tesla.
For a start they have no historical components and (maybe) only 1 controller and a couple of specs, so knowing what code to send to what car should be pretty straightforward.

Porsche, for better or worse, have many model variants and within those a vast combination of potentially different car controller and new plus relatively ancient code.

So first the OTA needs to know which model, does it have torque vectoring, active anti-roll bars and rear wheel steering, all of which possible combinations will presumably have to have been tested for bugs.
And that is before checking non-important combinations like electric charge ports, reversing camera combinations HUD, night view etc.

My guess is that what Tesla have to do is check whether the (non)self driving option is in there then send one of 2 updates, whereas Porsche, whether we or they like it or not, potentially have hundreds of possible combinations to comb through before sending.

The way round it would be not to have an options list so every car is the same, then it is much easier.

Note I write this as somebody who wrote software from 1970 until 1986 so maybe very out of date.

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