Trickle Charger for Taycan 12v battery?

[j.w.s]

Thanks for the info. Can you point me in the direction of articles which disprove what the supposed "whistleblower" said? I understand how Porsche could have designed their batteries to have excess capacity which can be accessed for adding capacity lost due to age or failure. This is just smart design and makes sense but giving the impression they will actually remove individual cells when they fail which is more labor intensive than just a setting in software. I will find out first hand from my Porsche service center how both methods are employed.
I've worked for high tech equipment companies much more advanced than Porsche or any car manufacturer based in Europe which practices this same nascent capability model in manufacturing.
It lowers your manufacturing costs to include all options in the build of every unit and simply activate options via software and worst case add external hardware options in a plug n play fashion that requires no additional wiring or infrastructure which adds to the time it takes to add any of these options. This strategy should work well for Porsche as long as a cell which fails can be disconnected from the array of cells in a way that they cannot overcharge and be at risk for a runaway overcharge event. I do understand these things since I am an electrical engineer and work with similar technologies in far more advanced industrial equipment costing as much as $300M US where cost is no object. Auto manufacturers are held hostage to the cost of every component on their cars as well as the cost to service them under warranty and still be profitable. Porsche is finding their way with their first EV. I'm confident they will do the right thing since their long, storied, reputation depends on it.

Again, completely false information. No EV battery pack is build with any spare cells, and indeed there is no easy way to do so without adding a ton of extra cost, complexity, and weight, while reducing reliability. It just doesn't happen.

Thanks for the info. Can you point me in the direction of articles which disprove what the supposed "whistleblower" said? I understand how Porsche could have designed their batteries to have excess capacity which can be accessed for adding capacity lost due to age or failure. This is just smart design and makes sense but giving the impression they will actually remove individual cells when they fail which is more labor intensive than just a setting in software. I will find out first hand from my Porsche service center how both methods are employed.
I've worked for high tech equipment companies much more advanced than Porsche or any car manufacturer based in Europe which practices this same nascent capability model in manufacturing.
It lowers your manufacturing costs to include all options in the build of every unit and simply activate options via software and worst case add external hardware options in a plug n play fashion that requires no additional wiring or infrastructure which adds to the time it takes to add any of these options. This strategy should work well for Porsche as long as a cell which fails can be disconnected from the array of cells in a way that they cannot overcharge and be at risk for a runaway overcharge event. I do understand these things since I am an electrical engineer and work with similar technologies in far more advanced industrial equipment costing as much as $300M US where cost is no object. Auto manufacturers are held hostage to the cost of every component on their cars as well as the cost to service them under warranty and still be profitable. Porsche is finding their way with their first EV. I'm confident they will do the right thing since their long, storied, reputation depends on it.

You know the old saying: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. No information has ever been published to corroborate the extraordinary claims of the supposed whistleblower, while an abunance of available information refutes those claims. You asked for information that 'disproves' the claims. You should be looking for information that confirms any of those claims. You won't find it.

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[Option7]

Again, completely false information. No EV battery pack is build with any spare cells, and indeed there is no easy way to do so without adding a ton of extra cost, complexity, and weight, while reducing reliability. It just doesn't happen.


You know the old saying: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. No information has ever been published to corroborate the extraordinary claims of the supposed whistleblower, while an abunance of available information refutes those claims. You asked for information that 'disproves' the claims. You should be looking for information that confirms any of those claims. You won't find it.

Thanks, I will find out from Porsche tomorrow what the cost to replace an individual module which has 12 cells as well as the cost to replace a single cell which I was already told by my dealer that Porsche designed the battery pack to do.
I also need to find out what happens when a cell fails. Being an electrical engineer I could see that the vehicle's charging system must be able to recognize bad cells over time so the system does not overcharge these cells causing a risk of overcharging and a potential runaway event.
Porsche offers an upgraded charger since Dec 2022 which I hope solves the slow charging problem which caused the fire in Florida. You can simply say these claims have been debunked but so far I have seen no evidence that disproves the whistleblower on a technical basis but to your point I have also not seen any additional technical information confirming the whistleblower's claims. I will investigate further and report back what I find. So far, simply from an electrical engineering perspective the assertion that Porsche has used an inferior charging module makes a lot of sense that now they are offering an upgraded charging module on 2021 & later models. I believe this new module likely eliminates the issues of slow charging at 120V which was attributed to the largest percentage of vehicles which caught fire which were not part of the recall on vehicles from 2022 to 2023 which were recalled due to an improper battery cell sealant used on vehicles produced from 2022 to 2023.
These are all facts from Porsche or the NTSB so I do have confidence they are correct.

 

[Option7]

Thanks for the input. I'm going back to the Porsche dealer on Monday to try to get some answers. The fire risk on the main battery due to the cheap battery management charger still used in the Taycan is a big concern.

I did find a Porsche service bulletin.

Directly from this service bulletin:
197/21 ENU WMP2 dated Sept 1st, 2022.

Porsche strongly advises against using the 125v charging cable on a daily basis. They obviously realize it's use at 125v will damage the main battery leading to diminished capacity and potential fire risk.

...per the Porsche service bulletin...

"The "domestic" 125v supply cable is provided for emergency use only and should not be used for daily home charging. Please discuss installation & use of a suitable 250V circuit with all customers."

 

[tigerbalm]

Not again.

My whistleblower says that if you charge the car in a 5G area after you've taken the flu vaccine – the car blows up 66% of the time. What does your whistleblower tell you?

 

[007]

My whistleblower says that if you charge the car in a 5G area after you've taken the flu vaccine – the car blows up 66% of the time. What does your whistleblower tell you?

I believe you, unless anyone can point me to the proof that this whistleblower is incorrect. I’m just going off of facts here.

 

[simcity]

Yeah I think I’m done on this thread too. Peace everyone ?

 

[Scandinavian]

My whistleblower says that if you charge the car in a 5G area after you've taken the flu vaccine – the car blows up 66% of the time. What does your whistleblower tell you?

Ooh is that why I always hear BBC radio one in my Head without any phone or other equipment. 5G, Covid vaccine and Flu vaccine combined. That explains a lot!

 

[tigerbalm]

Ooh is that why I always hear BBC radio one in my Head without any phone or other equipment. 5G, Covid vaccine and Flu vaccine combined. That explains a lot!

And you had a bad battery cell recently. It's all coming together. Though I always assumed your battery issue was related to the Northern Lights as you were in Sweden at the time.

 

[Scandinavian]

Thanks, that's great information. I found a Porsche thread for proper battery customer maintenance to always have the battery charged to at least 50% before letting it sit for weeks. This I can do if it will keep the main battery in the best condition. I just wish the dealer would tell me this instead of having to find Other Taycan owners to fill me in on best practices. Thanks

I do understand these things since I am an electrical engineer and work with similar technologies in far more advanced industrial equipment

Well I must say your statements above have me worried. The fact that a Lithium battery should be charged to 50% before longer storage time, is nothing new for EV’s. That is to preserve the health of the battery. It has been well known for all equipment with that battery technology, mobile phones, tablets etc etc. for a long time.

If you rather like to believe what a dubious guy on Teslarati has stated, without ever getting any proof, then believe many long term owners on here, so be it.

 

[Scandinavian]

And you had a bad battery cell recently. It's all coming together. Though I always assumed your battery issue was related to the Northern Lights as you were in Sweden at the time.

No you took the Northern light show to Ireland didn’t you? Looking for it all over Norway ??

 

[tigerbalm]

No you took the Northern light show to Ireland didn’t you? Looking for it all over Norway ??

True story. We spent this weekend planning our next road trip to Norway (this time focusing on Lofoten islands); then went to the pub completely oblivious that the damn lights were right over our heads last night!

 

[Option7]

Yeah I think I’m done on this thread too. Peace everyone ?

Well, at least now we have the facts directly from Porsche stating they don't advise charging at 125v for more than 12 hours and only in an emergency. Daily use should be avoided.
Pretty simple.
Most of the fires of Taycans happened in cases where they were charging far more than 12 hours at 125v from NTSB findings so this Porsche bulletin makes complete sense.
For those making wise cracks, I'm sorry you are not smart enough to know or interested enough to actually find the facts. Just saying the whistleblower was wrong about everything he/she said is just ignorant. Some of his claims have been confirmed by this bulletin saying charging batteries at 125v for long periods is dangerous. Porsche has confirmed the use of 125v charging on a daily basis is bad for their cars. Period. The fact they won't say why it's bad is simply because they don't want lawsuits for damages caused to vehicles prior to this notice on Sept 1st 2022 where damage to the battery, vehicle & property could be assigned to this statement seeking to hold Porsche responsible.
Porsche has taken the right step to correct the problem which has previously led to numerous battery failures but not all dealers are letting potential customers know the risk the Porsche service bulletin states clearly dealers must tell customers.
My dealer did not tell me this.
I had to hunt for answers for a few days until I dug them up on my own. I usually don't blindly buy anything without investigating, even when there are rumors. It never hurts to be safe rather than sorry. In this case I did trust my Porsche dealer but they said nothing about the issue with daily 125v charging. I will address this with them tomorrow.
For those who simply have money to burn but don't care about the details. These people are a con man's dream. Easy marks that eat up whatever the con man is shoveling as long as it seems to make sense at first glance.
I analyze complex systems for a living, far more complex than any car, in fact the most complex systems on earth, so I can get to the bottom of any technical issue given a few days and talking to right, well informed people.
I appreciate the responses from many on this forum which gave honest, valuable feedback which allowed me to get to the correct answers to my questions. Thank you.

 

[Vercingetorix]

My whistleblower says that if you charge the car in a 5G area after you've taken the flu vaccine – the car blows up 66% of the time. What does your whistleblower tell you?

Never, ever charge an electric car if you have metal teeth fillings.

 

[drknee]

I've been told I need to put the 12v lithium battery on a trickle charger when the car sits for periods longer than 2 weeks. I'm very annoyed that I can keep the main battery charged with a charging schedule but Porsche has made no accommodation to have an external plug to connect a trickle charger and instead require the owner to open the front hood to connect a charger which should have been engineered to get it's maintenance charge from the main battery. Seems quite ignorant engineering if this is the case for a luxury EV. Normal ICE cars don't drain the starting battery in a few weeks unless you have aftermarket accessories like alarm systems installed.
My 2000 Boxster used a Porsche trickle charger plugged into the cigarette lighter socket but I'm told this is not an option for the Taycan since Porsche advises against trickle charging the 12v battery via the cigarette lighter socket.

I went through this entire exercise with my 2021 Turbo S. All of it is totally unnecessary. I left my car in a air conditioned garage in Florida after charging the big battery to the suggested 85 % ( more on that later)
anyway after seven months the charge went down to 78% and everything worked fine. Obviously the 12v lithium battery IS supported by the big battery. You could alternatively leave it plugged in the whole time but I didn like that idea regards fire etc. AND it is not necessary.

Regarding the 85 % limit to preserve the life of the big battery. That is also incorrect. Turns out that when you charge the battery to 100% , the software still limits it to 85% of max automatically. So now you can the increase range by 15%!

I have owned ten Porsches including a 962, a super cup car , a cup car , a 356, a cayenne turbo, a boxster S , a GT3RS. etc. My Taycan is fun fast and really kind of stupid. It is VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TO GET IN AND OUT BECAUSE OF THE A PILLAR !
The electronics are undependable like most computers. The Range makes it suitable ONLY as a commuter vehicle. I have done the trips and they can be a nightmare.

Mr Toyota has it right A HYBRID !
The totally EV experiment has failed at multiple levels.
By the way if you want a Taycan buy a used 4S with the big battery….you can pick one up for very little. Buying a Turbo or Turbo S is a waste of money.

so there you have my three year review. I should have gotten a 911 Turbo S or a GT3. Hope this helps .It takes time to figure out EVs and the dealer is often not much help. In general the dealer is only worth it for warranty items . They are only capable of replacement…really can’t fix anything. As far as EV knowledge they are very deficient.

I am surprised so many like their Taycan?

 

[Hirschaj]

Well, at least now we have the facts directly from Porsche stating they don't advise charging at 125v for more than 12 hours and only in an emergency. Daily use should be avoided.
Pretty simple.
Most of the fires of Taycans happened in cases where they were charging far more than 12 hours at 125v from NTSB findings so this Porsche bulletin makes complete sense.
For those making wise cracks, I'm sorry you are not smart enough to know or interested enough to actually find the facts. Just saying the whistleblower was wrong about everything he/she said is just ignorant. Some of his claims have been confirmed by this bulletin saying charging batteries at 125v for long periods is dangerous. Porsche has confirmed the use of 125v charging on a daily basis is bad for their cars. Period. The fact they won't say why it's bad is simply because they don't want lawsuits for damages caused to vehicles prior to this notice on Sept 1st 2022 where damage to the battery, vehicle & property could be assigned to this statement seeking to hold Porsche responsible.
Porsche has taken the right step to correct the problem which has previously led to numerous battery failures but not all dealers are letting potential customers know the risk the Porsche service bulletin states clearly dealers must tell customers.
My dealer did not tell me this.
I had to hunt for answers for a few days until I dug them up on my own. I usually don't blindly buy anything without investigating, even when there are rumors. It never hurts to be safe rather than sorry. In this case I did trust my Porsche dealer but they said nothing about the issue with daily 125v charging. I will address this with them tomorrow.
For those who simply have money to burn but don't care about the details. These people are a con man's dream. Easy marks that eat up whatever the con man is shoveling as long as it seems to make sense at first glance.
I analyze complex systems for a living, far more complex than any car, in fact the most complex systems on earth, so I can get to the bottom of any technical issue given a few days and talking to right, well informed people.
I appreciate the responses from many on this forum which gave honest, valuable feedback which allowed me to get to the correct answers to my questions. Thank you.

Hey troll, we’ve already talked through all of this old misinformation you are bringing up. There are plenty of threads for you to read through on this forum if you are interested in the slightest. Good luck with your Taycan if you actually even have one.

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