Battery capacity and range estimates

[FredC057]

The car will calculate properly even above speed limits if you always drive that way.
If you always drive long distances around 93 miles per hour, the prediction when you enter the next stop is very accurate.

You should plan in advance with ABRP and enter 110% of the speed limit and enter a max speed. And then enter your stops in the pcm, that’s the best way I found and always accurate as it differs in winter and summer and with traffic…

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[Dr Bob]

ISSUE TWO: I was driving on the interstate at 80-85 mph. I noticed that as I drove the range decreased faster than the actual miles traveled. For every 10 miles of range, I was only traveling about 7-8 miles. I didn't notice this the first time until I only had about 40 miles to my next charging stop and only 45 miles of range left. I slowed to 60 mph and was able to make it to the stop with 11 miles of estimated range left. The bottom line, the range estimate and trip planner are badly out of sync and could result in being left on the side of the road with no charge.

I share Gary's frustration with the range estimates, the Taycan is nowhere near as informative as my Tesla M3 used to be. Yes, the SoC remaining estimate from the trip planner seems to be pretty good but the range guessometer is absolutely useless. In my mind, the range guessometer must respond to changes in driving style – ie if you keep driving in this mode, this is the range you will have. Garry's experience of not noticing the reducing range issue - due to a cr&p range guessometer will no doubt hit others as well.

I recently did a 340 mile trip in the UK (overnight - so speeds were pretty consistent). Trip split into 3 sections (110 miles each 'ish'). For those in the UK, the trip was from Falkirk to Rugby down the M74/M6. Temp was mid 30's F (2-3°C). Car was charged to 100% SoC – and was reasonably warm on leaving. Range Guessometer was showing the typical 215 miles. Since October it always shows 215 miles (100% SoC). Before mid October, it always showed 240 miles (got the car 2nd hand in September).

Now, I always monitor my range by checking the mileage done for each 10% of SoC used, so if the range is really 215 miles, you would expect to go 21.5 miles in 10%. The actual power usage in each 10% of SoC used is obviously dependent on conditions. For this trip, the first 10% distance covered was 20 miles (down a bit from 21.5 due to heating the car up). The next 10% was 23 miles (doing 70mph), the next 19 (going uphill to 1000ft), the next 20% 18 miles (going downhill but with the battery heating to 40°C and the wipers going full blast as heavy rain). After recharging I was getting circa 23 miles per 10% (+/- the hills) likely as the battery was now nice and hot – and cooling to 30°C. After the second charge, the first 10% SoC period was in a long stretch of road works from Standish down to the M62 junct and so was a constant 50mph for 15 miles or so. That 10% segment was done with 27 miles. The rest of the trip was then 24 miles down to 21 as the battery cooled over the last 100 miles of the trip at 70mph. Outside temp was 2-3°C throughout and few cars on the road as the trip was done 10pm to 4am - so keeping speed constant was easy.

What do I conclude from the above? Yes the average range was circa 215 miles as predicted on the guessometer, but I'd like to see it responding to my driving. The 50mph section was 27 miles and if I had done the whole of that 10% section at 50mph, I would likely have got 30 miles, so at 50mph I could have done 300 miles not 215. When I do a trip I would like to have an estimate of what I will have at the the end, which I can get from the end of trip SoC, but I'd like to see that in the range guessometer as well. I dont always use the trip planning so dont see a final SoC. It's like Gary's case in the original post. You dont have the range to get to where you are going, so slow down! It would be far better to have the car tell you that in the guessometer rather than you work it out for yourself. That's what the Tesla did. In the case of the Taycan, the guessometer just says 215 or 240 depending on season and totally ignores how you are driving on the day (or week). Understanding how range is affected by ambient temperature, battery heating, going uphill and downhill and windscreen washers etc is very useful – and I am well aware of the affects. It's a shame the Taycan hides this information. For me, it's a bit of a black mark in what otherwise is an absolutely brilliant car and a real joy to drive. A few lines of computer code would sort out this problem.

It is interesting that there seem to be many more threads on range on this forum than on any of the Tesla formus I use to frequent - maybe because the range guessometer is so bad at showing how the car is performing?

 

[Dr Bob]

Why am I kidding? You consumed more than predicted because you drove faster than legally allowed. What do you expect from Porsche? That they always underestimate range because you might drive faster than allowed? I think this forum would be full with complaints that everyone arrived 20mins too early because they didn’t need a 2nd or 3rd charging stop.

Sorry but I think you have this wrong.
The range the car reports should be based on how you are driving. If you drive faster, then the range is reduced and the guessometer should show that. It is nothing to do with legal speed limits. If I choose to drive at 100mph rather than 70mph, the car should report the range that it thinks you will achieve if you keep doing it. Some EVs have 'instantaneous' and 'overall' range estimates. My Taycan just has this seasonal number as per my post above and totally ignores how I am driving.

 

[whitex]

Seriously? Porsche makes and advertises a car that has a max speed of 160 mph and they don't expect or design for going over the speed limit.

You don't want to know the range you will get at 160mph. Compare it to Bugatti Veyron, at its max speed, it will empty its full gas tank in 5 minutes. I fairly sure the Taycan will give you more than 5 minutes from a full battery at 160mph, assuming you're not climbing a mountain at 160mph. Welcome to the world of physics!

Taycan Guess-O-Meter is based on your recent driving and conditions. If your driving or conditions change, it won't be very accurate. In ABRP you can enter how much above speed limit you are planning to travel (so if limit is 70mph and you plan to go 100mph, enter +30), plus its premium service will consider current weather (free 30 day trial IIRC). It will give you a more accurate estimate than the Taycan PCM. That said, I usually plan the trip in ABRP, then enter individual legs into the PCM, overcharge somewhat to allow for broken chargers, then watch the estimated destination SoC on the Taycan PCM, if it drops under 10%, I slow down.

 

[whitex]

Taycan is nowhere near as informative as my Tesla M3

Really? A decade of Tesla driving and I NEVER once managed to achieve the shown "rated range" (forget "ideal range" on the instrument cluster) from a full battery as shown by the Tesla Guess-O-Meter. The trip planner accuracy of the Tesla was much closer to reality (makes you think why they only let you see "rated range" or "ideal range"), but even that was thrown off if I traveled faster than what Tesla thought was the speed limit. Here is an one of my worse examples (picture of the Tesla screen, grey is the estimated by Tesla consumption, colored one is the actual consumption, difference due to heavy foot, hence I overcharged at all stops, still had to slow down towards the end to make the next supercharger, car was limiting power by around then anyways):

Taycan Guess-O-Meter got pretty good for me after about 1,500 miles on a 3,500 mile trip home from the dealer. Tesla's guess-o-meter was always "rated range".

 

[Tooney]

Taycan Guess-O-Meter got pretty good for me after about 1,500 miles on a 3,500 mile trip home from the dealer. Tesla's guess-o-meter was always "rated range".

You picked up brand-new Taycan at dealer in South Carolina, drove it off the lot and 3500 miles back home across the US using Electrify America in February.
Now, that's Taycan road trippin.

 

[whitex]

You picked up brand-new Taycan at dealer in South Carolina, drove it off the lot and 3500 miles back home across the US using Electrify America in February.
Now, that's Taycan road trippin.

YOLO!

 

[Scandinavian]

the Taycan is nowhere near as informative as my Tesla M3 used to be.

That is not my experience at all. I think my M3 shows the ideal range at all stages and nothing like any realistic value.

If I get from our house and turn right at the roundabout, I can go down to the coast which is an elevation difference of 500 meters. If I turn left I can go up a pass that is an elevation change of 600 meters up. The difference in the Taycan GOM is significant. I don’t think I have seen this change in the Tesla at all.

Both Charging planners are however spot on and show an accuracy of a few % SoC at destination.

What do I conclude from the above? Yes the average range was circa 215 miles as predicted on the guessometer, but I'd like to see it responding to my driving

I guess that is the effect of averaging the past driving over a longer time?? Maybe too long? I normally completely ignore thaT GOM and set a destination and watch the SoC at destination. The car will then also alert me to an extra charging stop if needed, depending on my desired SoC at destination.

 

[f1eng]

Well, before you set off your car has no idea how long your journey is, how fast you plan to go and the terrain.
All it can do is make an estimate based on recent history, which will just drift with temperature if you mainly do shorter local journeys IME. The best estimate is probably just a weighted average with time.

Mine, it seems to me, does take the topography into account if I am following the PCM sat nav route (and if I’m not how on earth could it know?) and updates range as I go.
I have been pretty satisfied by the accuracy on the range predictions on the few long runs I have done - though I am usually unconcerned since it has always been “enough”. I just monitor it with a vague engineer’s interest.

I do not expect my car to read my mind or be clairvoyant.

 

[Windpower]

I share Gary's frustration with the range estimates, the Taycan is nowhere near as informative as my Tesla M3 used to be.

I have both a Taycan RWD and a Tesla model Y.

From a range point of view, I find exactly the opposite: the Taycan is more accurate when calculating range.

I normally charge at home once a week to 85% on both the Taycan and the model Y. On the model Y in a week, I'll get around 150 miles in the winter and around 225 in the summer. But the model Y always reports the range as being around 275 miles year round. In the Taycan, it will report a range of around 200 miles in the winter and around 280 miles in the summer. My actual range is pretty close to the estimate.

One thing which kills the range on the Tesla Y is phantom power drain: I can lose 4% per day just sitting in my garage. Since I charge once a week, I can lose 28% to phantom power drain.

With the Taycan, there is no phantom power drain. I can charge to 85%, go on a trip for a week and will still have the charge at 85%.

All this said, I do mostly local driving in both the Taycan and Y so I'm not affected by the loss in range due to higher speeds.

 

[kort]

FWIW:
my 4s with performance battery will report about 212 miles @ 100% soc, today @ 55 % SOC it reported 120 miles, so that would lead me to believe that the GOM is off and @ 100% SOC I could expect to go about 230 miles in the car.

 

[Dr Bob]

I share Gary's frustration with the range estimates, the Taycan is nowhere near as informative as my Tesla M3 used to be

That is not my experience at all. I think my M3 shows the ideal range at all stages and nothing like any realistic value.

If I get from our house and turn right at the roundabout, I can go down to the coast which is an elevation difference of 500 meters. If I turn left I can go up a pass that is an elevation change of 600 meters up. The difference in the Taycan GOM is significant. I don’t think I have seen this change in the Tesla at all.

Both Charging planners are however spot on and show an accuracy of a few % SoC at destination.

to Peter -and the others who think the Tayan is better at information on range

I agree the Taycan is good on estimating total range - BUT only via the route planner and the expected SoC at the end of the Journey - and is better than the Tesla in this respect.

However, my main gripe is that that is that is all you get with the Taycan and if you are not using the route planner - ie using Waze or something else, you dont get that range estimate. You are then left with the guessometer which is pretty poor. I prefer Waze on long trips as I can then choose where I stop, put in a destination 300 miles away and not worry about the range setting trying to slow me down! I only resort to the planner when I want to get the battery up to 40°C (rather than 30°C) for a faster charge - which is not all of the time ( see my post in the thread on charging to 100% last week)

The Tesla shows range and capacity as you drive. It has a graph that I used extensively to show you the differnce in power used for all the different variables which teaches you how to drive to the longest range if needed. There is much more information available in the Tesla M3. I cant see how people can say there isn't. However I would conceed that the accuracy of the total range was not as good compared to the end of trip SoC.

Peter, I too live on hill where elevation change is 500 ft (not metres) in each direction and the Tesla power graph showed a huge difference when going up and down - whereas the Taycan guessometer still always shows 215 miles (when full) in the winter which ever way I go. That is totally the opposite of your experience. Maybe mine still has its original 2021 software??

I'm just a data nut and did like my Tesla power graph!!!!

 

[Zcd1]

I have both a Taycan RWD and a Tesla model Y…One thing which kills the range on the Tesla Y is phantom power drain: I can lose 4% per day just sitting in my garage. Since I charge once a week, I can lose 28% to phantom power drain….

Something’s not set correctly on your Model Y if you’re seeing that much energy usage while the car is sitting.

Do you have Sentry Mode activated?

 

[Scandinavian]

Peter, I too live on hill where elevation change is 500 ft (not metres) in each direction and the Tesla power graph showed a huge difference when going up and down - whereas the Taycan guessometer still always shows 215 miles (when full) in the winter which ever way I go. That is totally the opposite of your experience. Maybe mine still has its original 2021 software??

Strange???

When you say that it still shows the same range, have you then entered a destination going up or one going down in the PCM? My car has always done this since 2020. Standing in the garage I can easily get 3 ranges displayed.

1. No destination set
2. Destination going to the coast > greater. Consumption can be negative by a few kWh going Down. A drive of 30 km can show 10 kWh/100 km!

3. Destination to mountain pass. <. Less. Consumption can easily get up to 35 -45 kWh/100 km

It will also change range depending on which drive mode I choose and how I set the climate control.Range can differ by 10 - 30 km depending on weather etc etc.

“””So ask me what range I get from my car, and I will answer the figure you like best??”””

If you do not see any difference when entering a destination, then maybe there is some data exchange missing in your car?

I agree that there is a lot of more data available in the Tesla, so I could adjust during style when navigating yo a destination. I mainly just use the battery %. I have so many charging stations around me. For Tesla SuC , there are about 36 charge points within 25 km radius. plus another 50 >150 kW CCS . And more stations are popping up at supermarkets like Leclerc,Carrefour, Lidl etc. Thanks to be close to the main route to Italy I guess.

 

[DougFrisk]

Something I noticed last night while getting stats on the car before it charged was this page in the car scanner app dashboard.

I'm guessing this is part of what the car uses for range estimation and why it's so accurate. I infer that each category corresponds to a speed taken from the Nav system's maps or the camera that reads posted speed limits.

When I looked at this page earlier with only a few hundred miles on the car, some of the intermediate road categories read 0 as well as category 6. Category 5 would likely correspond to roads with speed limits of 70 MPH because that's highest posted limit for any roads are here in Minnesota. Category 6 likely starts somewhere above that speed.

If that's the case estimating consumption for a trip is a matter of taking the distance to be traveled on each part of the trip on a particular category times the average consumption for the category.

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