Winter Tyres Dilemma: Seeking Advice on Taycan Wheels

[peterjames]

It is to some extent true but you can’t really assess an IC engined car much better than a battery either since you don’t know how it has been driven.
A badly driven car, particularly a manual, can have large variability in clutch wear and syncro ring wear and some engines may have been frequently red lined, even from cold, so will be much more worn than even one with no dealer service history but well driven and properly maintained at home.

So I am not sure there is much difference in one’s actual ability to judge the condition of a used IC engined car over a used EV.

Also, whilst my longest experience is with hybrid batteries, the Prius I bought in 2005 is still being used daily in the family and is still on its original traction battery so still in spec after 19 years (it needs a new 12V lead acid ancillary battery every 4-5 years though).

I think the batteries are well managed and unless they have a faulty cell may last way longer than we fear.

You might find this interesting. There's a guy in Norway conducting thorough battery tests. He's quite geeky but has conducted tests on how long batteries retain their charge, how quickly they charge, what factors affect battery degradation, and which ones degrade the most, etc. You can download his results from here or from his channel: . He has listed all the cars he's tested here: .

2020 QLC Merc, 2 years old, lost 8.4% of its battery capacity.

The Tesla S, 10 years old, only lost 14.8% of its battery capacity.

The Kia Soul doesn't seem to fare very well. At 7 years old, it lost 24.2% of its battery capacity.

The Nissan Leaf, 8 years old, experienced a massive 54.3% battery degradation.

Another interesting case is the Audi E-tron, only 2 years old, which lost 8.9% of its battery capacity, mainly due to DC fast charging.

Climate appears to play a significant role, with hot climates causing more severe battery degradation.

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[Vim Schrotnock]

Here's a few sites that compare winter vs all-season tires. Some of the results are quite surprising to people. If you're going to drive on a snow covered road, or where the temps are below freezing, you need to be very very careful in summer tires. The reason they don't make winter in 21" is you want more sidewall in the winter tires to allow for more 'flex' for the tire to grip over uneven surfaces. You also want a narrower tire. It may seem counterintuitive, but a narrower tire will have much better grip in the snow and ice than a wide one.

Both of these sites are comparing winter vs all-season, so the difference with summer tires will be significantly greater.


https://public.websites.umich.edu/~umtriswt/PDF/SWT-2016-10.pdf

 

[Ross]

You might find this interesting. There's a guy in Norway conducting thorough battery tests. He's quite geeky but has conducted tests on how long batteries retain their charge, how quickly they charge, what factors affect battery degradation, and which ones degrade the most, etc. You can download his results from here or from his channel: . He has listed all the cars he's tested here: .

2020 QLC Merc, 2 years old, lost 8.4% of its battery capacity.

The Tesla S, 10 years old, only lost 14.8% of its battery capacity.

The Kia Soul doesn't seem to fare very well. At 7 years old, it lost 24.2% of its battery capacity.

The Nissan Leaf, 8 years old, experienced a massive 54.3% battery degradation.

Another interesting case is the Audi E-tron, only 2 years old, which lost 8.9% of its battery capacity, mainly due to DC fast charging.

Climate appears to play a significant role, with hot climates causing more severe battery degradation.

Good old TeslaBjorn. I like him.
Been watching his stuff for years.

Essentially he is proving there is nothing to worry about especially with newer tech and better quality tech.

It’s the heat that kills them. Particularly the early tech batteries.

Nissan Leaf is VERY early battery tech.
Hopeless lack of cooling. They are fine slow charging. Well known that fast charging kills them.
Kia Soul not much better.

My mate had a Leaf for a driving instructors car. Made a fortune over an ICE car but killed his battery in 18 months. Overnight charge only lasted until lunch. He was an early adopter. 80 mile range and No problem finding a charger at lunchtime back then

The garage said
-Do you fast charge often?
He said
- Everyday.

They told him that kills the battery but no one told him that when he bought it!

The cooling (and general) tech on Porsche batteries is so advanced now they have reduced the buffer and removed the fast charge speed limiter (it was 200). The batteries will outlast the rest of the car with a little, gentle degradation. Just like the HP and general efficiency of an ice car even when well maintained.

I will still keep extending the warranty though because it’s so complicated if it does go wrong….
££££££££££$$$$$$$€€€€€€
I won’t be buying the Porsche Taycan Haynes manual and tinkering in my garage

 

[BJCanadaMax]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and not very knowledgeable about cars.

Yesterday, I was considering buying a Taycan, but I decided against it due to a concern about the wheels. The Porsche dealership couldn't provide me with a satisfactory answer, so I'm hoping one of you knowledgeable folks might have some insights.

The Taycan saloon comes with 21-inch wheels fitted with summer tyres. My concern was whether it would be okay to drive with summer tyres during the winter. The dealership claimed it's fine, and most people do it, but after conducting some research, I found strong recommendations against it.

Some individuals have mentioned the need to switch to winter tyres in cold weather. Some said you need to change the wheels. However, I was told by Porsche that they don't sell winter tyres for 21 inch wheels. Is this accurate, as it seems quite unusual?

I've attached an image of the research I found, which strongly advises against driving with summer tyres in the winter. It appears that when the temperature drops below 7 degrees Celsius, changing the tyres is recommended.

Thanks

My 21 inch winters are Pirellis and they are N (Porsche warranty allows it)

 

[satchurator]

.
2) the wheels are heavy so take care when lifting them
3) they are very big so consider this when thinking about storage space.

Regarding #2, I purchased a single GoJak wheel dolly to avoid popping a hernia when aiming+lifting each wheel onto the lug bolts. For the folks with ceramic brakes, you might be glad of a tool like that to help with lifting the wheels off too.

Regarding #3 I use a TruStack dolly for vertical stacking of my off season wheels. I realized that a tire rack wasn't going to be practical - even if the space savings were better, I didn't want to trust wall mounting a set of wheels in my garage and wanted to avoid lifting heavy objects while balancing on a step ladder.

 

[Scandinavian]

Here's a few sites that compare winter vs all-season tires. Some of the results are quite surprising to people. If you're going to drive on a snow covered road, or where the temps are below freezing, you need to be very very careful in summer tires. The reason they don't make winter in 21" is you want more sidewall in the winter tires to allow for more 'flex' for the tire to grip over uneven surfaces. You also want a narrower tire. It may seem counterintuitive, but a narrower tire will have much better grip in the snow and ice than a wide one.

Both of these sites are comparing winter vs all-season, so the difference with summer tires will be significantly greater.

Good comparison in the video. There was a test in Swedish magazines in winter, where they compared the a number of studless Nordic Winter tyres ( even softer) with European winter tyres and also All season tyres.

Conclusion was that the Nordic Winters were even better, but not be very much, than the European winters. The Nordic ones seem to have a softer compound still. They can not be used at as high speeds though.

The conclusion for the All season tyres were that they were worse than the cheapest and worst of both winter and summer tyres. They are not common at all in the Nordic countries.

 

[Nigel.newcombe]

My Tyres seem pretty good for 21 inch wheels and winter tyres, none OEM is acceptable so long as all 4 tyres are changed at the same time, getting them swapped over for a few months in the UK would also mean they last a couple of seasons, £1860 roughly for Michelin Alpin 5 and there's also Pirellis, Goodyears and Hankook (£1300).

I can't find all seasons anywhere in 21's which I'd much prefer in the UK, the cut off for winter or summer tyres is about 7 degrees but UK weather is so changeable winter tyres could be fine one day and not the next, there's just not the separation of seasons like more extreme climates.

It's a lot of money for the odd few weeks of cold in the UK, the alternative would be just park the car up when really cold or snowy and use something else.

We're taking the car to Poland in December so hopefully there's a solution by then, interestingly would swapping over from 21's to a 20 inch wheel and tyre Porsche combination require a recalibration of the speedometer ?

 

[f1eng]

We're taking the car to Poland in December so hopefully there's a solution by then, interestingly would swapping over from 21's to a 20 inch wheel and tyre Porsche combination require a recalibration of the speedometer ?

I have 2 sets of wheels, 21” with summers and 20” with winters. The wheel and tyre combination is selectable in the PCM so I just change the setting when I get the wheels changed. Maybe speedo and displayed deviation from correct pressure in My Porsche app are set.

 

[Murph7355]

Well after a *lot* of procrastination on a 2nd set of wheels with winter tyres, my position was moved by yet another pothole problem.

Another egg in a tyre meant replacing 2 more, fortunately 70% worn, tyres. Unfortunately the tyre place noted the wheel that took the brunt was now out of true. Driveable, but needed sorting.

So after much head scratching I decided to go the "wrong" way and bought another set of 21"s with all but new Michelin Alpin 5's already fitted. Mission E's were never really amongst my favourite wheels, but I didn't want another set of Spyders, these look great, were evidently very, very well cared for the whole deal was spot on (thank you Alex if you're on here!).

Temps here are still just about OK for full winters. They drive well on the car (though speeds are limited due to the state of the roads!) and having round wheels again is a delight.

I'll now get the Spyders sorted out (still my favourite Taycan wheel) along with a modest colour change (why not).

Will see how these go over the next few winters (I suspect I'll get that long out of them) and then either replace with the same/similar winter tyre or move to all season.

In changing them, the new jack pad I bought didn't seem to fit. Was scratching my head on what was happening, couldn't figure it out so packed up.

Then thought to look at the other corners of the car and noticed those jack points had a "receptacle" that looked just like the jack pad. Sure enough, the pad fitted perfectly.

So I went back to the first corner...poking around under the car I noticed an "angle" in the gap between the chassis and the plastic body add ons. Stuck my fingers in and it moved...pulled it out with a small screwdriver and lo, a jacking point adaptor that had broken away and somehow become wedged in!

New part ordered (left. Old part right) and will fit at the next chance...should just press in. Not sure whether this is a great design or poor one! And also have no idea how this happened or when.

 

[RED!]

Canadian here!
I have OEM RS winter and summer 21’s.
Winter are continental, fitted by Porsche dealership as an option.

I’m extremely happy with them in actual snow and worse, slush. I have my garage full of winters or summers, five sets total, I either keep them on the ground under a storage rack for sailing stuff, or in stacks four high. They take the least space that way. A jack and an electric impact gun and torque wrench was my friend until I found guys who’d do it in my driveway for around $80/car. I’ll bet there’s a mobile mechanic near you that will take care of things easy.
It’s worth it to have a confident ride, I’ve crossed the Pennines from Leeds to Manchester in a light snow (by Canadian standards) and it was a shit show for the cars on the road - I’d have loved to have winters that day!

I drive 250 kms twice a week in all weather conditions here in Canada and I feel the Porsche is as competent a car as I’ve ever driven in bad conditions.

 

[snb7x]

Hi Peter, I was in a similar position to you in terms of car knowledge and, most especially, tyre knowledge where I found terms such as 'NFO' & the like highly technical!

I owned a 2021 Taycan saloon that had 20" Aero wheels on Michelin tyres as fitted from the factory. During the two winters I owned it, there were no problems with the wheels or tyres & I covered a total of 18,000 miles.

This autumn I purchased a 2023 Sport Turismo & I really liked the aesthetic of the 21" RS wheels which were fitted with Pirelli tyres. Within a month, with the winter fast approaching, I was experiencing chronic "Ackermann Effect" (look it up - most Porsche's/sports cars with wide tyres suffering from a 'scrubbing' sound while manoeuvring at slow speeds in cold weather) & decided I had to do something about it.

I did a lot of research and decided, for me, the best option was to buy a set of winter tyres (and to avoid Pirelli's as they seem to be the worst regarding this specific problem!). That was when the real fun started ... I found that there's very few winter tyres to chose from and even less when checking actual availability. As my plan is to keep this car for the foreseeable I decided to buy a second set of wheels & opted for 19's as I read these would greatly reduce the Ackermann Effect. I purchased a refurbished set for £1,000 from a highly rated alloy wheel dealer on eBay as I saw no reason to pay OPC prices. I sourced the tyres separately and ideally wanted Michelins but there were none to be had. I 'gambled' on Hankook iON ev Sound Absorber tyres because they were a newly introduced high-performance winter tyre and were EV- specific. The only availability I could find was via Germany but they were shipped quickly & efficiently & I received them in under a week.

The car is transformed - the car is quieter, smoother, and feels quicker. There is no scrubbing of the tyres and the car feels so much more 'planted'. A side-effect that I hadn't given much thought to is that range has noticeably increased from c.220 miles on the 21's with Pirelli's to 240 (&, seemingly, still improving during the 1,000 miles of covered so far) on the 19's with Hankook's. The only negative is the aesthetics - the 19's just don't compare visually to the RS 21's but, of course, I don't see the wheels when I'm driving it!

I'd estimate that the total cost to include shipping, fitting, balancing, tyre pressure monitoring sensors, etc has been under £2,500 and I regard this as excellent value, especially for the improvements I've achieved.

As an extra observation, I've watched a video doing a deep-dive on the Taycan II that's just been announced and I noticed that the car had Hankook iON evo tyres fitted which, unlike my winter version, sported the NFO label so it looks like the Hankook's could be being preferred by Porsche going forward.

I'm not looking forward to putting the summer wheels back on the car in all honesty. I fact, I suspect I'll bite the bullet, ditch the Pirelli's and fit a summer set of Hankook iON evo's as the winters have been that good!

Good luck with the purchase and whatever you decide to do wheel & tyre-wise; the Taycan is a superb car, although not without its imperfections as I'm sure you will have read!

Would that tyre be available in 20”?
I ask because I’m driving my 3rd Taycan (formerly 4S on 20” then Turbo Mission E 21” - both coupes and now a 4S Sports Turismo on 20”)
The 21” alloys look fab but you sacrifice road noise and handling - esp with pothole shudder. I bought a second hand set of 20” with view to having all weather or winter tyres … and 20mths on that’s still to happen. As a result I find this post very helpful but I’d still be inclined to opt for “all weather” as that suits our less wintry and more wet climate we are now tending to experience in U.K./Ire and my procrastination in advancing the plan for my “new shoes” …. Any stand out opinions on suitable “all weather” tyres for 20” use with Taycan anyone?

 

[RED!]

For all weather (we call them “All season” tires, I’d strongly recommend Continental DWS - the D stands for Dry, W -Wet and S -snow. The tires have DWS pressed into the treads so as they wear down you lose the S first, then the W. This way you can actually understand where you are on the wear curve. I’ve driven on them with larger sizes 285 45 19s and they are great all rounders and good for speed, handling and rain and an early light snowfall that doesn’t stay on the road.

“While the Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 Plus is widely marketed as "EV Compatible," it is currently almost exclusively available in XL (Extra Load) and SL (Standard Load) ratings rather than the new HL (High Load Capacity) rating.”

My experience is with a car that weighs 700 lbs less than a Taycan

 

[ct4s]

I have 20" with Winter P Zeros and they work well.
However, no deep snow this year so they weren't pushed too hard.

Summer tyres are Goodyear on 21" Spyders.
Look miles better and naturally a much higher performing tyre.
However on our crappy roads the ride is notably worse and the road noise higher.

Would love to have a summer set of 20" Spyders. But I'm not spending any more money on this car for the time being.

 

[Murph7355]

I have 20" with Winter P Zeros and they work well.
However, no deep snow this year so they weren't pushed too hard.

Summer tyres are Goodyear on 21" Spyders.
Look miles better and naturally a much higher performing tyre.
However on our crappy roads the ride is notably worse and the road noise higher.

Would love to have a summer set of 20" Spyders. But I'm not spending any more money on this car for the time being.

When your Goodyears are up, try Hankook Ion Evos. Better in every way than the Goodyears IME.

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