Battery capacity and range estimates

[whitex]

he tesla gives you a choice of sampling ranges of last 5 miles, last 10 miles and last 30 miles. I always used the last 30 miles (ie around 10% of charge). That smoothing is fine. If you want more detail then you can in press of a 'button' go to 5 miles.

Why 30, not 20 or 50 or 100? When I had Teslas there was a 10 and a 30 mile average IIRC, and the two numbers were often very different. So if presented with ranges based on last 1,2,5,10,20,30,50,100 miles, the average user would just get confused as they likely would vary quite a bit. When using PCM for navigation, after the initial ~1,500 miles off the boat (worth noting I also drove from very warm weather to very cold weather along the way) the Taycan range estimates were rather accurate. Tesla assumed speed limits (which in some states it would assume incorrectly), while Taycan seems to look at my past driving style.

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[Murph7355]

Thanks Peter,
I'll check that out. Andy (Murphxxx) had said you can see data in tube 3 which I had seen once but I will have a look at both.

They're effectively the same data sets I think (trip meter stuff).

So you can either have it in the main screen, or the third tube

Might be best not to look ? (Cold car, short journey....).

 

[Dr Bob]

Why 30, not 20 or 50 or 100? When I had Teslas there was a 10 and a 30 mile average IIRC, and the two numbers were often very different. So if presented with ranges based on last 1,2,5,10,20,30,50,100 miles, the average user would just get confused as they likely would vary quite a bit. When using PCM for navigation, after the initial ~1,500 miles off the boat (worth noting I also drove from very warm weather to very cold weather along the way) the Taycan range estimates were rather accurate. Tesla assumed speed limits (which in some states it would assume incorrectly), while Taycan seems to look at my past driving style.

Whitex,
Yes, the ranges vary a lot between 1, 30 and 100 but that is the key to having more information. The Tesla does the information well because it gives you the option to look at it. You dont have to!!! If the average user doesnt understand it, they wont use it .....but it is there for the more informed users.
We are all different. We all want different things. My experience tells me the most important variables for range are you right foot and the outside temperature (plus uphill/downhill). Obviously others but these are the key ones. Therefore on a long run I want to know how the car is doing given the temp (which is likely to be pretty constant) and my speed. Taking this over a 30 mile range just driven is perfect for this. If I see my power usage is lower than expected (the Whr/mile number) I can make a decision to keep to or change my driving style (but inputting other info like am I going uphill all the time or is the battery preheating). Yes, this will be too onerous for many to think about and I am probably in the top 20% of peeps who like data - but the Tesla gives you that option. The Taycan doesnt (only a final SoC if you have the route on). I substitue this in my head by seeing how many miles I did in the last 10% of charge used but I wish the Taycan could do that simple calculation.
My original statement in my first post on this thread was that the Tesla gives you more info than the Taycan on range. I stand by that statement. It does. Whether that data is useful is another question. For me it is. For you, probably not. We are all different. The tesla graph of power usage vs mileage is a valuable data asset if you are looking for data. It's a shame the Taycan which is soooooo much better than the Tesla in EVERY OTHER WAY doesnt have this type of option in its software.

 

[Dr Bob]

They're effectively the same data sets I think (trip meter stuff).

So you can either have it in the main screen, or the third tube

Might be best not to look ? (Cold car, short journey....).

Andy,
thanks for the info on the 3rd tube. Tried it this morning and yes, it's a good way to see the power being used. I never use the 'trip' setting on the 3rd tube as its usually showing the 'info' stuff. I will do more now.

Question: how do you get the Cons line (the important one) showing m/kWh rather than what mine is showing me ie kWh/100mile?

Wow, it must have been cold!!! Only 1.3 kWh per mile.......but that's exactly what I find. I do circa 12-15 300+ mile trips a year but the rest is often short trips locally so you use 10% of the battery just heating up the car in the winter and you get a range of less than 100 miles for the 'normal' charge window.

 

[Murph7355]

Andy,
thanks for the info on the 3rd tube. Tried it this morning and yes, it's a good way to see the power being used. I never use the 'trip' setting on the 3rd tube as its usually showing the 'info' stuff. I will do more now.

Question: how do you get the Cons line (the important one) showing m/kWh rather than what mine is showing me ie kWh/100mile?

Wow, it must have been cold!!! Only 1.3 kWh per mile.......but that's exactly what I find. I do circa 12-15 300+ mile trips a year but the rest is often short trips locally so you use 10% of the battery just heating up the car in the winter and you get a range of less than 100 miles for the 'normal' charge window.

In the general settings for the car there's a "units" section (miles/km psi/bar etc) and consumption is in there iirc.

The "info" tube can be configured in general settings too. You can select what each of the 4 (maybe 5) lines show. And there may be options there to do what you need.

I've sent feedback to Porsche on this sort of thing. The system is needlessly restrictive. Why limit what each tube can display? It must have been harder to do this than allow anything goes (if I want "media" in all three tubes, why should Porsche care?).

Ref my trip... It was around 6degC iirc but very wet and windy and the car had been stood outside for 10hrs or so. Consumption improves rapidly on that display as miles are covered....

The car's overall average across 14.5k miles is 27mi/kWh, but my average since buying it (4.5k miles ago) is low 2s.

I do like to get a shufty on though ?

(On private roads and autobahns there's a big difference between 90mph and 60mph. Obviously not relevant for the King's highways....).

 

[Windpower]

Do you have Sentry Mode activated?

No.
With Sentry mode on, I lose around 7% per day. With Sentry mode off, I lose around 4% per day.
Its pretty easy to see. When I get home from workx around 7pm, I take a picture of the Tesla screen, and then take it again the next morning (14 hours later) when I'm getting ready for work. Some days there is a 2% loss, some days the loss is 3%.
The only way I can get the phantom drain lower, like when I go to the airport and leave the car for an extended time, is to close the Tesla app on my phone. Then I can get phantom power drain down to maybe 8% per week.

 

[Zcd1]

No.
With Sentry mode on, I lose around 7% per day. With Sentry mode off, I lose around 4% per day.
Its pretty easy to see. When I get home from workx around 7pm, I take a picture of the Tesla screen, and then take it again the next morning (14 hours later) when I'm getting ready for work. Some days there is a 2% loss, some days the loss is 3%.
The only way I can get the phantom drain lower, like when I go to the airport and leave the car for an extended time, is to close the Tesla app on my phone. Then I can get phantom power drain down to maybe 8% per week.

My guess is that your car is being “woken up” somehow multiple times a day.

In 5 years with 2 different Model 3s, leaving them sitting for even multiple days at a time at home or the airport, I’ve never seen the SOC change by more than 1-2%. Most of the time the SOC doesn’t change at all, but occasionally the indicated SOC actually increases . (probably a result of a change in the battery temperature)

I’d schedule a service call to have this looked at if I were you - it’s not normal at all.

 

[Windpower]

I’d schedule a service call to have this looked at if I were you - it’s not normal at all.

I'm on the TMC forum and from other postings, what I see is entirely normal. There are three levels of phantom power drain:
- with Sentry mode on (up to 8% loss per day)
- with Sentry mode off but with the Tesla app active (reports are 3 to 4% loss per day)
- with Sentry mode and the Tesla app closed (less then or equal to 1% per day)

I am not the only person seeing this. Phantom power drain is endemic in Tesla's.

 

[Zcd1]

I'm on the TMC forum and from other postings, what I see is entirely normal. There are three levels of phantom power drain:
- with Sentry mode on (up to 8% loss per day)
- with Sentry mode off but with the Tesla app active (reports are 3 to 4% loss per day)
- with Sentry mode and the Tesla app closed (less then or equal to 1% per day)

I am not the only person seeing this. Phantom power drain is endemic in Tesla's.

Phantom drain WAS endemic to the older Model S/X, but hasn't really been an issue on the 3/Y. The few reports I've seen on the 3/Y have generally been linked to an active app on a phone close to the car at all times and/or something else waking the car up, intentionally or unintentionally.

Sorry for your difficulties.

 

[violuma]

Why limit what each tube can display? It must have been harder to do this than allow anything goes (if I want "media" in all three tubes, why should Porsche care?).

Perhaps it's government safety regulators who care, and not Porsche. In the USA, there are NHTSA guidelines (I don't think they're legally mandatory, but I could see manufacturers wanting to say they are compliant) aimed at reducing driver distraction that set limits on what sorts of information can be beamed directly at drivers while the vehicle is in motion.

 

[Murph7355]

Perhaps it's government safety regulators who care, and not Porsche. In the USA, there are NHTSA guidelines (I don't think they're legally mandatory, but I could see manufacturers wanting to say they are compliant) aimed at reducing driver distraction that set limits on what sorts of information can be beamed directly at drivers while the vehicle is in motion.

As much as I distrust politicians and have a healthy cynicism around governments, I very much doubt they'd legislate on whether having trip data on the left side of an instrument cluster instead of/as well as on the right.

The most irritating parts of PCM seem to have been programmed by someone who's never actually driven a car/owned one for more than 5mins.

Iirc, VAG binned a large chunk of their systems people. In some respects I'm not surprised.

 

[f1eng]

Andy,
thanks for the info on the 3rd tube. Tried it this morning and yes, it's a good way to see the power being used. I never use the 'trip' setting on the 3rd tube as its usually showing the 'info' stuff. I will do more now.

Question: how do you get the Cons line (the important one) showing m/kWh rather than what mine is showing me ie kWh/100mile?

Wow, it must have been cold!!! Only 1.3 kWh per mile.......but that's exactly what I find. I do circa 12-15 300+ mile trips a year but the rest is often short trips locally so you use 10% of the battery just heating up the car in the winter and you get a range of less than 100 miles for the 'normal' charge window.

That is the display I have put as one of the 3 on the PCM split screen (along with the sound and map) but haven’t been in my Taycan to photograph yet.
Mine does show kWh/100miles too though so I do the arithmetic in my head so I am interested by the answer too.
If you use the split PCM screen for it you can use the 3rd tube for other stuff (I do)

1.3 kW/mile is pretty normal for the first couple of miles IME fwiw.

 

[Scandinavian]

That is the display I have put as one of the 3 on the PCM split screen (along with the sound and map) but haven’t been in my Taycan to photograph yet.
Mine does show kWh/100miles too though so I do the arithmetic in my head so I am interested by the answer too.
If you use the split PCM screen for it you can use the 3rd tube for other stuff (I do)

1.3 kW/mile is pretty normal for the first couple of miles IME fwiw.

You can easily set the different units in the PCM. This is a screenshot from my sofa of the PCM simulator.

 

[TaycanTurbo22]

Are people honestly using Sport/Sport Plus (pic above) and expecting reasonable efficiency from a Taycan on shorter journeys??? You need to be prioritising 2nd gear for that...Normal/Range mode...

 

[violuma]

As much as I distrust politicians and have a healthy cynicism around governments, I very much doubt they'd legislate on whether having trip data on the left side of an instrument cluster instead of/as well as on the right.

No, but I could definitely see them caring about "media across all three tubes", which was the phrase that caused me to get involved.

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